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Thread: Purinton mud-hole

  1. #1

    Default Purinton mud-hole

    Well, I went up to the infamous mud-hole to see if the planks we put there in late July were still there, and not surprisingly it was completely destroyed. I didn't think they'd hold up that well, but I thought maybe riders would make an attempt to put things back if they got out of place or started sinking. I guess not.


    Someone mentioned that there is an effort to get a bridge or other bypass put over/around this spot, but that there are easement or other issues to work out - don't remember who said that. If that's the case, anything we can do to help move it along? We're neighbors and for one, I'd like to make it more convenient for me to ride, and two, I hate to see the place getting torn up with people trying find other routes around it.

  2. #2

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    The Mat-Su Trails Council received a grant for surveying and recording an easement for the trail. The survey was done this summer. A short section of trail crosses private property and we are hopeful they will grant an easement. If not we will reroute around the property.

    Once the easement is recorded we can get grant money to make more permanent repairs to the trail. If a group has money and/or materials we could probably get approval for putting them in before the easement is done.

  3. #3

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    Just out of curiosity how much money are we talking about and what's planned?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by plexed View Post
    Just out of curiosity how much money are we talking about and what's planned?
    We don't have any projects besides survey/easement in the pipeline. Another group is doing trail assessments. After we have an easement we'd use the assessment as a guide to prioritize possible projects.

    How much money? Do you mean grants? or how much to make lasting repairs?

  5. #5

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    The permanent repairs. And who is the other group doing the assessments? Thanks for the info!

  6. #6
    Member TWB's Avatar
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    We are speaking of Boulder trail head? Doesn't the trail on the far end of the parking lot bypass the bog on the topside?
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    We are speaking of Boulder trail head? Doesn't the trail on the far end of the parking lot bypass the bog on the topside?
    No, it bypasses the steep hill, but not the hole.

  8. #8
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    Two things...

    1. There is an entrance which bypasses the infamous bog, just off the Glenn about 2 miles before the paved pullout most people use. On the highway, there is a small bridge crossing Purinton Creek. Right after that, on your left, is a dirt road heading into the woods. About 100 yards in on that road there are clearings where you can park. From these parking areas, there is a mostly wide trail which heads up the hill, putting you on the ridge about 3 miles from the old trailhead.

    2. I never got to see the planks when they were initially installed, but I was out there yesterday, and they are now demolished-compromising of nothing more than scattered debris in the bog.

    Given the length of the bog crossing, and seemingly bottomless nature of it, does anyone have any ideas on a more durable crossing? I was wondering if something along the lines of a mat of bolted-together old tires (along the lines of this playground (http://www.mde.state.md.us/Programs/..._frederick.asp)) might do the trick.

    Finally, any update on where we stand with regards to permitting etc. need to make a more durable structure across this bog?

  9. #9

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    Two things...

    1. There is an entrance which bypasses the infamous bog, just off the Glenn about 2 miles before the paved pullout most people use. On the highway, there is a small bridge crossing Purinton Creek. Right after that, on your left, is a dirt road heading into the woods. About 100 yards in on that road there are clearings where you can park. From these parking areas, there is a mostly wide trail which heads up the hill, putting you on the ridge about 3 miles from the old trailhead.
    Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think that the trailhead you are referring to is actually on private land, which is why the Borough moved it a mile and a half down the road. I know it is heavily used and people camp there all the time, but the 40 it sits on was for sale this spring.

    2. I never got to see the planks when they were initially installed, but I was out there yesterday, and they are now demolished-compromising of nothing more than scattered debris in the bog.
    Yes, the planks probably make it worse at this point. I think they would have lasted longer if they were just used by ATVs and repaired when they got out of place. They couldn't handle the jeeps or pickups, which could have stayed off them.

  10. #10

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    Sorry I missed the question about who is doing the assessment. I will get a contact for ya.

    As to a durable crossing. We had proposed a puncheon type crossing to DNR. They wanted an survey & easement before they would permit construction.

    Something like the type 2 here: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/...33/found04.htm

    Plexed is correct, the old trailhead is private property. We worked with the DOT & MSB on the "new" trailhead when they did the road project. Basically it was a staging area that they left after the road project was completed. The only protected access is the steep hill at the south end of the parking lot. It follows the section line. The other trail crosses land that is currently public but is subject to sale someday. We included that trail in our survey work. We may or may not get an easement for it.

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    How far in from the trailhead is the bog? If it is within a mile, you ought to consider geofabric and gravel. Done right that will outlast anything else. If it is much more than about a mile from where a truck can bring the gravel, it gets too hard to move the gravel down the trail with an ATV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRick View Post
    How far in from the trailhead is the bog? If it is within a mile, you ought to consider geofabric and gravel. Done right that will outlast anything else. If it is much more than about a mile from where a truck can bring the gravel, it gets too hard to move the gravel down the trail with an ATV.
    The bog is probably a little over a mile up the trail. However, I don't think you'd be able to get a truck up there. The bog is several hundred feet higher than the road (I'd guess 300-400 ft), and the trails to it are steep and wind between some large trees. It would take a lot of round trips of ATVs pulling meat wagons / UTVs to get the gravel up there.

  13. #13

    Default With some gravel allocated to the trail itself

    (filling in ruts) and using the steep trail as a return path we could get enough wheelers and trailers running to get it there. I'm not sure that there isn't to much flow (maybe not water but mud moves too) for these type of fixes. I can't recall if there is much slope there or not. Anyway, if someone comes up with a design/plan that will work let the ATV Club know!
    Mike
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    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  14. #14

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    There isn't much lateral flow, but I think the mud is probably fairly deep. Whatever goes in there needs to be able to handle large vehicles. This trail is popular with the jeep/mud-buggy crowd, since it gives access to the Boulder Creek trail. Anything that goes in will need to be able to support a ton or more, and then not sink in. Unless, of course, you can find a way to keep the jeeps/buggies off it (since they are out there to run in the mud anyway).

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRick View Post
    How far in from the trailhead is the bog? If it is within a mile, you ought to consider geofabric and gravel. Done right that will outlast anything else. If it is much more than about a mile from where a truck can bring the gravel, it gets too hard to move the gravel down the trail with an ATV.
    The ADF&G Habitat folks frown on anything that inhibits the flow of water. Any causeway would require some kinda culverts.

    There is a source for gravel up near the top. I just priced geotextile for another project. The medium weight roll 13.5' x 550' runs $1/lf.

    If someone here has the moxy to put a project together, permits, materials and people, I am sure we can get the Mat-Su Trails Council mini-ex up the trail.

    We may be up there Saturday, 10/24, to look at another project further down the trail.

  16. #16
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    Didn't realize there was a creek involved. If there are no fish in it, getting a permit shouldn't be too hard. If it is not a defined creek but just a wide area of very slowly moving water, fabric/gravel without any culverts may still work. Doesn't matter if it is underwater, just so long as there is never enough current to wash it away.

    I didn't realize that full size trucks were using it too. If that's the case, move the gravel with them instead of ATVs.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRick View Post
    Didn't realize there was a creek involved. If there are no fish in it, getting a permit shouldn't be too hard. If it is not a defined creek but just a wide area of very slowly moving water, fabric/gravel without any culverts may still work. Doesn't matter if it is underwater, just so long as there is never enough current to wash it away.

    I didn't realize that full size trucks were using it too. If that's the case, move the gravel with them instead of ATVs.
    Purinton to Boulder I assume you mean Boulder Creek, Boulder Creek is several miles down the trail...the bog in question is just above the parking lot.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  18. #18

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    If anyone wants to start working the permits here are the things that need to be covered.

    First the Coastal Zone Questionnaire: http://dnr.alaska.gov/coastal/acmp/Projects/pcpq.html. The State reviews this and decides what permits are required.

    Permits from these agencies are pretty much guaranteed:

    Corps of Engineers, filling wet lands, Karen Nelson 357-4494

    ADF&G Habitat, Mike Bethe 761-3859

    DNR ML&W, Cliff Larson 269-8508

  19. #19

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    Hi folks -

    Spring is on the way, so I figured it was time to start this up again.

    Has anyone moved this along during the winter? If not, I can see what needs to get started.

  20. #20
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    According to the map on that website, this bog does not fall within the Coastal Zone. So, where does that leave us in the permit process?

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