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Thread: Liquid Courage, Trespassing & Guns = Idiots!

  1. #1
    Member grndthunder's Avatar
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    Default Liquid Courage, Trespassing & Guns = Idiots!

    On the afternoon of 9/6-09 a couple guys spoke with the owner of a waterfowl charter located on our property. They spoke for a bit and were told there is no moose hunting or hunting of any kind in the area without permission from the land owner”. This area is privately owned farmland, and once you step off the road you are on “private property and trespassing”. The two guys informed the care taker that they would go where they like and do as they please! They were retold they were not allowed on our property. That night after midnight, they returned and drove into our farm. About a ¼ mile in they had a tire blowout (a little sweet justice). The young man taking care of the bird blind charter heard what sounded like a gunshot, so he got in his truck and went to see what was going on. The two trucks were bumper to bumper and the drivers out of their rigs and exchanging words. The idiot proceeded to pull a rifle, loaded it and pointed it at the young man, telling him he would shoot him! The kid realized his life is more valuable than an altercation with two idiots!
    Once back to his camper the kid called and told me of the incident. The husband and I jumped in our truck and went looking for them. We found them at a neighbor’s where they were staying. We spoke with the passenger, the driver didn't come out. Scott decided he was fed-up with idiots, and told him he was calling the troopers! He gave the troopers their names and had them “Trespassed from our Property”. These two fools, along with a neighbor & his family are now “trespassed” from our property. If they trespass again, it’s a free trip to jail! The next time you wonder why farms gets closed to hunting, you can thank fools like these. Alaska has enough State and Federal owned land where folks are allowed to hunt, you don’t need to poke your nose where it does not belong!

  2. #2
    Member Huntress's Avatar
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    Just keep in mind, its only a free card to jail if the troopers catch them there. They will do nothing more than ticket them if they are not on your property when they arrive. Also be sure that your No Trespass warning is in fact in effect, we had this happen and the Trespass warning was only a verbal one and not one that the troopers could enforce when the second incident happened....

    I feel bad for anyone having to deal with this, we have been there quite a few times ourselves.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    86 warning don't do much with out a letter and the law haveing a copy on file. In court it will always come down to states game and your land and was the land marked with tresspass signs as required.Have seen it many times and the hunter has always won if land not posted correctly. Of course I prefer bush law

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Pointing a loaded weapon and threatening to shoot someone is considered assault and is a felony. A bit more serious than trespassing.

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    Member ACNDHO's Avatar
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    Default idiots

    Send the iginuts to my property and see how well they fare! I feel sorry for you having to put up with idiots like that, sadly it happens all to much.
    Even a jackass won't stumble on the same stone twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Pointing a loaded weapon and threatening to shoot someone is considered assault and is a felony. A bit more serious than trespassing.
    I second this, and I would encourage the young man who was threatened to press charges. Trespassing hunters is an unfortunate and aggravating thing, but pointing a loaded gun at someone is an entirely different story. These are not the kind of people who should own guns and certainly not the type of folks I want to be sharing hunting grounds with.

    At the very least, reply to this post with names / personal and vehicle descriptions / license plates... if the moderators allow that kind of thing.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    You were pretty foolish to have pursued these guys after they had threatened the waterfowl guy with deadly force. What if the situation had escalated into a gunfight at your neighbor's house? You would have shared culpability in that. I understand your frustration, but you should have called the troopers when you first learned they had threatened the waterfowl guy and let them sort it out.

  8. #8

    Unhappy

    Several WRONGS in this case, as it appears if stated correctly. The law is clear on Trespass. The property has to be placarded in accordance with state law. Was it? Simply telling someone it is private property is not enough under Alaska Statutes. The Troopers know the law and will help you out with it, if you ask.
    A disinterested party should not have been the one to approach the guys in the first place. Bringing out the guns was really stupid, as was approaching them off site at a neighbors house. I personally see where everyone should have learned a great deal from this incident. If not....it is predictable that it will repeat itself.
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    What's done is done. Although I don't think I would have confronted the tresspassers as you did, I understand your point in the OP. I grew up on a farm in Michgan and the way my parents saw it was like this: If you stopped and asked for permission to hunt the farm it was granted as long as you followed my dads rules(no trash,no shooting near the buildings,no road vehicles in the fields,etc.). Dad would explain to the hunters that they must ask permission each year and that he would give permission to areas sought based on order asked. Also he had to meet everyone in the hunting party for them to be allowed on the property. If these rules were not met he would talk to the hunters and give them written warning of the tresspass consequence(he would always have a non-family member witness for this). I agree that what these type of bad apples ruin it for those of us who follow the ethical way of obtaining permission first. I hope that they don't cause you or the young man any more grief and if they do I hope the are dealt with properly and that it won't shed any bad light on those of us who do work respectfully with the land owners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Several WRONGS in this case, as it appears if stated correctly. The law is clear on Trespass. The property has to be placarded in accordance with state law. Was it? Simply telling someone it is private property is not enough under Alaska Statutes. The Troopers know the law and will help you out with it, if you ask.
    A disinterested party should not have been the one to approach the guys in the first place. Bringing out the guns was really stupid, as was approaching them off site at a neighbors house. I personally see where everyone should have learned a great deal from this incident. If not....it is predictable that it will repeat itself.
    This is not true in regards to the posting of property the requirement is that it be posted by a sign 144 square inches at all likely access points to provide notification. That said the land owner or trusted agent can provide direct verbal notification which is legally binding though it may be hard to prove in court.

    I do however agree that these fools should be in jail on assault charges for pointing a loaded weapon at the caretaker.

  11. #11

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    This is not true in regards to the posting of property the requirement is that it be posted by a sign 144 square inches at all likely access points to provide notification. That said the land owner or trusted agent can provide direct verbal notification which is legally binding though it may be hard to prove in court.

    I do however agree that these fools should be in jail on assault charges for pointing a loaded weapon at the caretaker.
    Believe me, your case speaks to a place of business, not farm land or undeveloped land.
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    Member akfirefighter's Avatar
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    Why would this matter if you are on farm land or place of business? You are on PP and destruction of property or tresspassing is against the law no matter what one might think the value of the property is. Pluss farm land is this family's place of business so however you look at it, they were still breaking the law by entering PP without permission.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Believe me, your case speaks to a place of business, not farm land or undeveloped land.

  13. #13

    Default Criminal behavior

    The young man who was assaulted at gunpoint should have
    contacted the troopers that night.

    Rather than debate trespassing issues the miscreants would be facing felony gun charges.

    They can point their loaded weapons at the Troopers when they show up and the discussion can continue from there..........

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    Citizens arrest?
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Member grndthunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    86 warning don't do much with out a letter and the law haveing a copy on file. In court it will always come down to states game and your land and was the land marked with tresspass signs as required.Have seen it many times and the hunter has always won if land not posted correctly. Of course I prefer bush law
    Our land is posted at every entrance and throughout the windbreaks. The State Trooper was serious when speaking to them, informing them they are to stay off our property! As far as pressing charges for assault, I can not do that, the law says it has to be the young man who was involved.

  16. #16
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akfirefighter View Post
    Why would this matter if you are on farm land or place of business? You are on PP and destruction of property or tresspassing is against the law no matter what one might think the value of the property is. Pluss farm land is this family's place of business so however you look at it, they were still breaking the law by entering PP without permission.
    Business expect you to enter their property to spend money a big difference. In Alaska the land is yours but all the game on it belongs to the state and if you are lincened you have a right to hunt it. The only way to keep unwanted folks off your property as already stated is signs or in business cases 86 letters which the law must have a copy of. Not many folks get arrested for walking across someone yard,think about it

  17. #17
    Member Gr is for Greg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    In Alaska the land is yours but all the game on it belongs to the state and if you are lincened you have a right to hunt it. The only way to keep unwanted folks off your property as already stated is signs ...
    Quote from hunting regs, page 8:
    Use of private lands without the landowner's permission, other than those legally reserved for public access easements, is trespass.

    I'm not sure anyone has a "right" to do anything on anyone else's private property. I do not have personal experience with this, and it sounds like some of you do; but, I cannot believe that anyone has a right to do anything on your property. Perhaps someone can make the case that the land was not indicated as private land, but I doubt that holds up at all after the landowner has said to the person, "This is my private land; keep off it." Plus, I don't think anyone would easily be able to make the case that they thought a farm was public land. I've never made the mistake of walking through a corn field, all the while thinking I was in a state park.

    If you do have personal experience that speaks otherwise, than my response is simple: the law is crazy. And I guess that is not too far fetched or uncommon...

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    Member grndthunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garboman View Post
    The young man who was assaulted at gunpoint should have
    contacted the troopers that night.

    Rather than debate trespassing issues the miscreants would be facing felony gun charges.

    They can point their loaded weapons at the Troopers when they show up and the discussion can continue from there..........
    The Troopers were contacted that night". Having them trespassed was all I could legally do. The assault charge they told me has to come from the young man. Troopers (more than one) made it clear it is not my choice to slap their butts in jail. If I could have, I would have put hem behind bars for assault.

  19. #19

    Default Troopers

    Certainly the victim is the one who is the witness and has to make a formal complaint. but

    I am wondering why the Troopers did not come out and investigate
    their loading and pointing of a gun at the young man, regardless if they were tresspassing or not? Police should come out and speak to the young man and the perpetrators even if he did not make the call himself and
    find out what happened for a matter of public safety.

    If all this information is in a police file and then these same two criminals end up shooting some other innocent who happens to ride up on them when they are Drunk in a future incident, then there could be a grave liability on the Troopers part for not following up on this incident.

  20. #20
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    Default I was there.

    I was there the night this took place. I was sleeping by the trailor in my truck waiting to hunt the next morning. I was awaken by the loud voices and was able to see two trucks bumper to bumper. One did have a flat that was evident as they left. I did hear a loud drunk conversation and then the flat tire as the truck left. I could not see any gun because of the headlights. The kid related the story to me the next morning. I feel that he should press charges. These guys were way out of line and need jail. It is a simple lesson my dad taught me along time ago. "Dont point a gun at anything you dont plan to kill." Trespassing, drunk, and pointing a gun. Jail is where they belong.

    I can say that I enjoyed hunting your land and the operators were great. I spent 3 days and saw a lot of geese and crane. I always seemed to be in the wrong blind and did not connect but then that is why its called hunting and not killing.

    I would like to thank you and all other land owners that see fit to allow us to hunt your land. I have farmed most of my younger days and know first hand how much damage a group of non ethical hunters can do to fence lines and crops. The effort that the farmer puts in is not lost on me and it is easy to see why most say "NO" when I ask to hunt thier land. A few bad eggs can and do ruin it for the rest of us.

    Thanks again and I will be back next year. The guys at C&S were great and the land was worth the drive from Anchorage.

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