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Thread: New Alaska hunting and fishing organization

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Thumbs up New Alaska hunting and fishing organization

    Hey folks, after a lot ( and i mean a LOT!) of work, the website for the Alaska chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers is up. I want to invite you all to check it out and see what we are about. Be sure to look at the "focus issues" and "what we do" pages.
    Some of you know about the work Mark (Bushrat) and i have been doing on this, and i am thankful to those of you that have already joined or voiced support.
    We already have members across the state, from diverse backgrounds and professions.
    What we all share is a love of the Alaskan wilderness, the unique opportunities for hunting, fishing, and foraging, and a desire to see this passed on to future generations for many years.

    here is the link: http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

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    Default Most excellent

    Congrats Mark & Dave (& Louise)!!

    Site looks great, gonna have to brew a fresh pot and do some serious browsing thru there.


    Couple of CA. transplants? Heheheheh....I'll let that one slide past.....<grin>
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Thumbs up Congrats

    I think it is great what you are doing for Alaska!

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    Default new sight

    Well you know what they say about opinions they all stink! Mine is no different to some! But when i check the sight and i see that they oppose ANWAR and they basicaly oppose atv use except for on "designated" roadways, i get nervous. My opinion is we need to develop anwar correctly to bring future revenue in the state for our children. We need to develop and open up more areas for atv use. We need to build more roads and access to different areas of the state before we out grow what little space we have to get to. The noted web sight appears to "greeny tree hugging" for me. Just my 2 cents worth! Chef

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    Chef victor I am right there with you bud. I got the same feeling from checking the site out. They support what they want to support but clearly dont support a lot of things many of us like to do. Who the heck wants to hunt Alaska on designated trails, thats the worst idea I have ever heard of. So much for adventure when you will be wheelin down the same trail everyone else is too????? I wouldn't have killed most of the animals that I have if I had to access a hunting area via a designated trail.Sounds like New Mexico, Arizona and Colorado to me. Takes "The Last Frontier" right out of equation

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Takes "The Last Frontier" right out of equation
    I think the idea is that they want to preserve the last frontier, instead of letting it get overrun by development and criss-crossed by ecological damage like much of the lower 48. Disagree with their stances if you must, but understand that their goal is to preserve our hunting rights and access through habitat protection, rather than to restrict hunting as some might infer from their positions.

    Just as you wouldn't have harvested some animals without atv access, you also wouldn't have harvested them without suitable habitat. Our actions have consequences, and at some point we may need to consider some form of self-regulation. Just a thought...

    -Brian

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    They support what they want to support but clearly dont support a lot of things many of us like to do.

    No offense here AKCub, but "many of us" also happen to agree with what that site represents.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Who the heck wants to hunt Alaska on designated trails, thats the worst idea I have ever heard of.
    No one is saying you "have to hunt" on designated trails. Park the wheeler and get off the beaten path. I see no efforts on that site to curtail HUNTING, I see a reasoned and well thought out approach to ensuring that our kids, and grandkids have a resource left to enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    So much for adventure when you will be wheelin down the same trail everyone else is too?????
    Are you saying that without a wheeler you can't hunt? Maybe you want to revisit that statement.
    I get plenty of "adventure" every season, and have never owned a wheeler. I lace 'em up, tighten the straps and get out there in the QUIET solitude that is first and foremost on my agenda when hunting/fishing.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    I wouldn't have killed most of the animals that I have if I had to access a hunting area via a designated trail.Sounds like New Mexico, Arizona and Colorado to me. Takes "The Last Frontier" right out of equation
    Well, sorry you feel that way, but "The Last Frontier" is, in my opinion being trampled on and torn to shreds by OVER usage of ATV's and the resulting diminished game populations near the roads. I grew up here when a guy didn't NEED a wheeler to get his meat. Last Frontier? C'mon man, do you think wheelering into a spot, dragging along generators, stoves, dvd players, etc. etc. is in ANY wat reminiscent of the pioneer/frontier spirit? Those that came before us up here had callouses and corns from walking/hiking/WORKING, not hemmorrhoids and carpal tunnel from riding,throttling and "hunting" from a machine.

    Wheelers CERTAINLY have a place and a usage, what is wrong in asking that those of us that DO NOT want to put up with them have to? Lots of room for ALL usergroups, if we can realize that we all share the same goal of enjoying our time 'round the fire......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I was just browsing the comics and came across this one. While I'm sure Bill Watterson doesn't share our love of hunting, I thought the message here was rather poignant.

    -Brian



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    Thanks But NO THANKS!

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    Interpret what I said ,as you will. Theres a huge population of hunters here in Alaska that use motorized toys to get into the backcountry. I have never taken a DVD player, a TV, or generators to hunting camp but the wheeler gets me 20-30 miles off the road sysytem so that then I can hunt in solitude, whether its for bearbaiting, moose hunting or whatever else. Its obvious that you guys are in favor of this organization and thats cool but nothing says that I have to favor it. I am just the type of person that speaks out for what I think and what I see. I am as much of a conservationist as many of you I just dont agree with some of the issues. I dont hunt the Rex Trail or off Chena Hot Springs Rd and any of the other massive superhighways that get ridden hard. I just dont agree with some of their theories they may be right and I may be wrong, but needless I dont agree. For the record I do hunt on foot a lot with a backpack, but I dont appreciate somebody telling me I can only ride my wheeler on such and such trail, didn't move to Alaska to face the same restraints the lower 48 is covered up with. The reality is that you dont hunt using a wheeler, I do and most guys I know do, not for all animals but for some. So we agree to disagree.

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    One more thing, "The Last Frontier" can be defined in many ways by different people. For me it is Alaskas' wildness, the ability to access remote country well away from roads and towns. Whether its by riverboat, plane or 4wheeler. Its also having the freedom to do this with great ease. The hunting success thing is a complete variable in the equation. Taking off to explore a new area and cover many miles in search of a specific critter, this I enjoy. You wouldn't have backpacked this meat bull back to your truck if you tried, this is 28 miles from the truck to the kill site.



    Last edited by AlaskaCub; 11-27-2006 at 20:10.

  12. #12
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    The reality is that you dont hunt using a wheeler, I do and most guys I know do
    I know this wasn't necessarily directed at me, but I wanted to respond really quickly. The truth is that I do hunt using a wheeler from time to time, and if you read the position statement on the website in question, so do many members of their org. It is not an anti-atv organization, but rather a pro-habitat one.

    I guess I can only put it in context of my own hunting experiences. This fall my wife and I went caribou hunting off the Denali Highway. We rode in on an established trail about 7 miles off the road. From there we hiked a couple of miles across the tundra to where we connected with a caribou. At this point we could have easily returned to the wheelers and rode them to the kill site, but decided instead to bone the animal out and pack it on our backs back to the trail. I chose to do this for a variety of reasons, but primary among them are habitat protection and protection of the image of hunters. We can do better than haphazardly riding across the tundra in every direction - in fact, we must do better if we expect anything less than extreme government regulation in the near future. If you really do want to protect your ability to ride far from the highway in search of game and solitude, I would hope that you would recognize this in at least some small way. By suggesting that we stick to "established" trails, I don't think that ABHA is referring only to the superhighways like the Rex and Ferry trails...though I suppose I could be wrong.

    Ah, well....that's the great thing about these forums, though. Plenty of room for disagreement and reasoned discourse.

    -Brian

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    I hear ya Brian and I was not referring that statement to you and I am by no means the person that wants to ride his 4 wheeler out of a Slope Mountain pull off and head due west on the tundra but I do like hunting off my wheeler when I get a chance. Brian it says it in plain english just click Focus Issues , ATV/ORV Abuse, "use designated trails". We have a state equal to many states in the lower 48, three main roads that triangle the meat of the state and now we want to designate what part of the state you can and cant ride an ATV.The last 2 paragraphs in that section sound more like a PETA add than a pro hunter organization. Maybe I am reading it wrong but it sounds like they want to turn Alaska into a backpack, river raft only state. This is the bad part, theres so many organizations out there but none of them are in agreeance with each other. I like some of the ideas these guys stand for but disagree with others. Thats why we cant ever agree on anything up here, and you got to watch out cuz you could be supporting an organization that sometimes will oppose something you are for and you dont even know it!

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Good example, Brian

    i think you know just where we are coming from.
    i lifted this verbatim off our website:

    "We believe in common-sense limits and restrictions on ATV and ORV access. There is certainly a place in Alaska for responsible ATV and ORV use on designated roads and trails, but there is absolutely no place in Alaska for irresponsible and widespread ATV and ORV abuse."

    the focus issue statement is "ATV and ORV abuse"...not "use", there is a difference.

    AlaskaCub,
    if your viewpoint is for unlimited access and total lack of restrictions, then yes, i would say our viewpoints are opposed, because with unlimited access and no restrictions then my kids and their kids are never going to see the Alaska we have now...
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

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    homerdave, its easy to throw me a sob story about the little ones, and I have my own son that I worry about not seeing the Alaska I know and love, but what exactly does "designated trails" mean? Please define that for me. If my son doesn't get to see the Alaska I know and love it wont be because of ATV's he'll be seeing it without a rifle in his hand because we are selling our state out to the wealthy outsiders and he wont have enough money to hunt up here in 20 years. Discuss the percentages of resident vs non-resident draw tags, the number of non-residents pouring into our state annually to hunt and compete in the same areas as residents with no regulation and the amount of guide services that pop up annually and the ever rising cost and availability of air charters and so on and so on, those are the reasons my son wont hunt in the same Alaska I did. It wont be cuz theres a few muddy trails made by wheelers that have already been there for 30+ years now.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    I'm an ABHA member and am very happy to see the new website up. It looks great and I appreciate all of the work that went into it.

    This thread has brought up a theme that occasionally arises here, the idea that just because we are all hunters we should all agree on every hunting related issue. Great idea, but we live in a diverse world and hunters are a diverse group. Why should buying a hunting license mean that we all automatically are on the same wave length? Hunting involves a lot of personal choice and that means every hunter will have his own ideas about what is right. Since we do have a public regulatory process in Alaska that does impose restrictions on how, where and when we hunt, I choose to join groups that share my ideas about hunting and the wilderness in Alaska so that my voice is magnified in that process.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Question sounds like a semantics problem..

    Cub, we're not lawyers, and we didn't write the site to have it picked apart word by word. maybe "established" is a better word...but then what time frame are we talking about? Now? 5 years from now? 10?

    If a trail has been used for 30 years it would certainly seem like an established trail with a history of use...maybe "designated" is the wrong word...i dunno, what word makes sense to you?
    we are not working to shut down anything, we are in favor of "common sense limits and restriction". surely you aren't against common sense?

    If 30 ATV's drive to your clearing 28 miles from the truck over the next 5 years will that be okay? there will sure be a trail if that happens....

    i would also agree with you that many of the other problems you pointed out are also serious threats to the hunting we enjoy today, and as those issues are brought into the public eye and debated, we will very likely weigh in with opinions you might agree with.

    As for Greenie-tree-huggerness..ROTFLMAO..that's simply ridiculous.
    Alaska Board of Game 2015 tour... "Kicking the can down the road"
    http://www.alaskabackcountryhunters.org/

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Alaskacub,

    I agree with you on the non-resident issue and agree that we need to reduce the number of people guiding on state land, but unregulated ATV access will impact our hunting in the future. It's not just a few muddy 30 year old trails out there. Every year I talkk to pilots who are seeing ATVs in new places and the tracks are really obvious out there. The machines are getting more capable and people keep pushing back into the country with them. This will lead to conflicts and shortages of animals which will inevitably lead to restrictions of some sort. I think the Nelchina Basin is a good example. But maybe instead of more restricitons on hunters we could just whack a few more wolf and bear vermin instead. Since Dick Bishop is now advising the governor-elect on Fish and Game issues we shouldn't have to worry about that, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    homerdave, its easy to throw me a sob story about the little ones, and I have my own son that I worry about not seeing the Alaska I know and love,
    And see, there is the rub. The Alaska you know and love is one that is drastically different than the one I and others grew up in. Technology and expanding use of resources by a growing population has assured us it will "never be the same" I see Dave and Mark's noble effort as an attempt to stem the tide....


    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    but what exactly does "designated trails" mean? Please define that for me..
    I'll have to let Dave or Mark speak on that one. But I believe we need SOME regulation and designation as to ATV usage, otherwise in 30 more years much of SouthCentral will look a LOT like Jim Creek...


    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    If my son doesn't get to see the Alaska I know and love it wont be because of ATV's

    Sorry AKCub, and again, this is not meant as an attack on you personally, BUT <grin>...It may VERY well be because of ATV use that your son won't see the same state that you see right now. You've lived here a handful of years, and just look at what, for example, has happened up on the Haul Rd. in that SHORT amount of time....It's turned into an example of good intentions gone bad, and has devolved into a circus worthy of a Red Greene skit....




    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    he'll be seeing it without a rifle in his hand because we are selling our state out to the wealthy outsiders and he wont have enough money to hunt up here in 20 years.
    "selling the state out to wealthy outsiders"...Ya mean like ANWR to the Oil Companies? Or Pebble Mine to a Canadian Firm?

    And I heard this same argument 20 years ago about being too poor too hunt up here in the future. Well, if it means having to buy a wheeler with a LARGER gas tank so you can expand your range because all the game has been pushed 300 miles from the trailhead by advancing technological advances, then you may be right. I still hunt the same swamp and hills I did as a kid. Still get my meat. And by doing it without a wheeler, money is of little consequence, I hike in, don't tell anyone where I go, and SURE as heck don't post it on an internet forum for millions to see.....We can be our own worst enemies when we can't help but brag it up....



    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Discuss the percentages of resident vs non-resident draw tags, the number of non-residents pouring into our state annually to hunt and compete in the same areas as residents with no regulation and the amount of guide services that pop up annually and the ever rising cost and availability of air charters and so on and so on,
    Good points all..But perhaps we should expand that to the number of -pardon the term- Cheechako (relatively new for the P.C. crowd) residents who think because Alaska is the last wild place, they have some sort of Old West right to treat her like she (yes she, to me this state is more than game and resources, it's an embodiment of what this nation once had the potential to be before it was paved in the name of progress) is there for their sole enjoyment and with complete disregard for what came before and what will come after they have had their fun and moved back south 'cause the "winters are just too long"...

    I do agree about needing to reign in the non-resident hunters, I've posted that before and gotten a fair bit of heat..I think we need to follow the same standard as the perm fund in regards to residency..TWO years up here before resident hunt/fish status. And if you are a "tourist" better plan on leaving a CHUNK of change here to utilize what many of us put in the freezer as opposed to hang on your wall....



    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    those are the reasons my son wont hunt in the same Alaska I did. It wont be cuz theres a few muddy trails made by wheelers that have already been there for 30+ years now.
    Sorry, but I think you're dead wrong on that one. MANY of those "30 yr old trails" are FAR older than that and where used by Natives for centuries. In a relatively SHORT amount of time the wheelers have turned them into mud pits.
    Care to wager what 30 MORE years of unregulated wheeler use will do? The machines get bigger, more aggressive in terms of being able to get further out and into more rugged terrain every year..How long before that starts impacting game populations?..Oh, wait, it already has....Teir II anyone??
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    homerdave you and I would probably agree on a lot of things, its just so suspect anymore who you give your money and or written support to because folks dont always clearly explain what they stand for and or what their intentions are. I would probably have jumped all over joining your organization but was immediately turned off when I read the ATV/ ORV Abuse info. To tell you the truth their are a lot of issues that are taking place in Alaska that upset me greatly, but the only fixes for problems that I keep hearing about is us (resident Alaskans) losing, more and more all the time. So when I see a website with wonderful wording hence the co-chair writes books, and wording that creates wonderful images in your mind, I just dont put two and two together. For all I know you guys are referring to issues that are taking place in another portion of our state than the one I live and play in. I just dont see a lot of these issues. Is F&G screwed up? You betcha! Are they underfunded or understaffed? They must be! Do Alaskans have the power to change things for our best, probably not. I wish there was an organization that I could join that supported a lot of the same principles I stand for , but there isn't one. Partly so because many figure they cant change anything anyway, I dont know. And yeah wording on the website is all thats there so if something says "designated trails" I am seeing atv signs with a line across them all down the highways in teh middle of nowhere Alaska, so you might want to reword that. Whether you guys believe in it or not theres a whole bunch of ATV/ORV hunters in this state and it struck me immediately that ATV's = BAD. Anyway good luck with your org.

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