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Thread: Hot .45ACP loads for bear protection?

  1. #1
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    Question Hot .45ACP loads for bear protection?

    Out of a platform like the Glock 21, has anyone hotloaded .45ACP with hard cast rounds, such as a cast pewter bullet, for bear protection? Thoughts? Would be cheaper than going to 10mm for a medium carry gun. Thanks!

  2. #2

    Default 45 ACP not enough for Volkswagon sized bears

    You can't possibly load 45 ACP hot enough for decent large bear protection.

    As for hard cast bullets, not really the right direction either. For a bear charge you'd want ablility to poke into the thick cranium to turn off the electricity, thus a material other than lead, no matter how hard that lead is would be the better way to go, i.e. solid copper or armour piercing.

    There will be no magazine reloading, so you'd be better off with a large boar revolver or the large frame autos capable of sending heavy (250+ grain) well built bullets that will not deform, past 1400+ fps

    45 auto is just not enough gun. 10mm is quite marginal.

    Actually the only benefit I can possibly see to using a Glock type weapon system would be the frame mounted Surefire Flashlight that would allow you to see what you're shooting at in low light situation. But still, the cartridges offered through the Glock platform are not adequate for Volkswagen sized bears.
    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for the shadow is mine and so is the valley. Thy Glock and thy M14 comfort me in days of civil unrest and terror

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    First, do not hot load the 45acp. Second, definitely do not hot load the 45 in a Glock. And third, get a bigger gun. Bears do not die quickly unless hit in the central nervous system. A 45acp can't get a bullet where it needs to go and it does not have the power to break down the running gear. A bear shot in the heart lungs with a 45acp could easily destroy you before laying down. If the cost of a better gun/cal is too much, trade the Glock for something bigger. A well placed 44mag is marginal. A well mplaced 45acp just isn't enough.

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    For the 45acp your best bet would be to carry ball ammo.Your chances of stopping a big bear with this rig would be better than the chance that you would be charged in the first place.Any hot loading of a Glock in 45acp will probably blow the head off your cases and maybe your shoulders

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    I would use hard cast SWC bullets that are designed for the 45 ACP, as they should penetrate better than other bullets.


    That is, if you can get them to feed reliably, which they don't in some Autos.


    No matter what you choose, someone is gonna say it's not enough.


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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE_HUNTERIAM View Post
    Out of a platform like the Glock 21, has anyone hotloaded .45ACP with hard cast rounds, such as a cast pewter bullet, for bear protection? Thoughts? Would be cheaper than going to 10mm for a medium carry gun. Thanks!

    You'd be better off with a cheap .357 magnum and 200 grain hardcast.

    But since the odds of getting eaten by a bear are pretty slim you are really not at a whole lot more risk than if you carried something bigger. As someone already indicated. But if that day ever came you'll be wishing you had brought something bigger.

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    Great info! I have bigger stuff but like the Glock size. Maybe I'll just stick with my S&W 329 in .44....

  8. #8

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    http://www.break.com/index/hunters-s...le-second.html

    Hopefully, a bear doesn't move any faster than this!

  9. #9

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    45 acp works great on humans but for bear i going to stick with the 44,mag for them ..
    stick with something that you can take it down if need to shoot a bear comeing at you in a bad scene at the river.. .,

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    Well, whatever you've got, whether it's beeg enuff or not, at least use the best load for the purpose. I think that's hard cast bullets, usually anyway.


    Elmer Keith has a story about a guy who shot and killed a black bear with one shot from a 455 Webley revolver.


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  11. #11

    Default 2-.44's in the safe-still

    We got two of them .44 mags. My real good friend is always wanting me to carry his .454 and I politly decline.
    I passed my "bear gun" on to my boy, 1971 ruger security six in .357
    I now carry my Kimber in .45 (makes me feel like a good American)
    You said it in your own post Hunter, "I like the Glock size"
    You like it, you shoot it well, you draw it quickly, you carry it.
    Its only gonna make you feel better any way. The bear gives a good
    c&%p what you pull out.
    I get a kick out of the folks that look at my little pea shooter and shake their head as if I don't understand simple balistics.
    All I know is if I draw that S&W 629 and squeze one off, only to let it whiz past his ear, I might as well use the energy it took to haul that behemoth thru the woods to run like heck.

  12. #12

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    It's all speculative till lots of bears are stuck with lots of different handgun calibers and loads.

    By good marksmen.

    Closest you can come to answering your own question is to take whichever handgun interests you into the field and stick some holes in game with it. Big bears are kinda once in a lifetime, but your feelings about the advisability of hunting one with any particular handgun caliber and making perfect shots should tell you lots about its usefulness for making fast, imperfect shots.

    Not bears, but the easiest game for me to get lots of experience with was deer. Holes in deer still add up to lots more than theories on the internet. I whacked a bunch of deer with different calibers to test their possible effectiveness for self-defense, all before the advent of 10mms or any of the latest super magnums. But I shot plenty with 44 mag, 41 mag, 45 ACP, 357, 44 special and 45 colt. Even whacked a couple with 9mm and half a dozen with various loads in the 38 special.

    Gotta say it was enough to make me shy away from the 45 ACP as a DEER gun, much less for personal defense or for bears. Both the 44 special and the 45 colt at standard velocities outperformed it, mostly due to their hardcast semiwadcutters with large meplats. I just couldn't get any similar bullet profile to feed through any of my ACPs, and the bullets that fed well just didn't do as well on game. And the ball ammo was TERRIBLE. Quick one shot kills with the 44 special and 45 colt, and often long tracking jobs with the 45 ACP ball.

    This has nothing at all to do with big bears for anyone else but me. But based on holes in hides and blood letting, I'm carrying large diameter heavy semiwadcutters at around 1100fps for the right balance of control versus tissue disruption. Give me a semiauto that meets those criteria, especially a small one, and yeah, I'd carry it. But..............

  13. #13

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    i seen deer shot with a 1911 45.acp cal pistol and it was under 25.yards with corbon super hot personal defense load and the buck droped like it was hit a stone axe right between the eyes..also seen wild boars or hogs taken with 45.cal 1911 pistol..

    but i can feel better with something that is a little hot ..

    or i can go to one of the 50.cal gi model uppers on my 1911 in the field for carry for that would make a great handgun stopper ..

    for that is a allful bigger bullet there ..

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by henry2 View Post
    i seen deer shot with a 1911 45.acp cal pistol and it was under 25.yards with corbon super hot personal defense load and the buck droped like it was hit a stone axe right between the eyes..also seen wild boars or hogs taken with 45.cal 1911 pistol..
    I'm not thinking a 200 pound deer or boar are in the same league as a 1200 pound brown bear. I guess the .45 is good enough for cape buffalo too given this reasoning.

    Virtually any gun can drop anything at some point in time. The point is to make it so the odds are in your favor.

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    Do they make a 460 Rowland conversion for the Glock?

  16. #16

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    to my way of thinking that if could pack a smoothbore 12 pd cannon i would but i can not ..i could figure out how to get a holster that big..

    the comment about the deer was it was more a survival idea with the 45.acp round then going into the bush after a 1200.pd bear..

    for if i had my choice me and the bear would not meet ..

    but the choice is we have to meet and it not going to turn out well for one side ..

    i like the side that it turns out well for it would me not the bear..

    so that way i pack a 44.mag revolver in the back county areas

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    First, do not hot load the 45acp. Second, definitely do not hot load the 45 in a Glock. And third, get a bigger gun. Bears do not die quickly unless hit in the central nervous system. A 45acp can't get a bullet where it needs to go and it does not have the power to break down the running gear. A bear shot in the heart lungs with a 45acp could easily destroy you before laying down. If the cost of a better gun/cal is too much, trade the Glock for something bigger. A well placed 44mag is marginal. A well mplaced 45acp just isn't enough.
    A close friend once over loaded some .45 ACPs and asked me to try them in his gun, I shot them in his Glock with no problems? His load was 13 grains of Win. 231 and felt like a heavy .44 magnum but, didn't do any damage to the Glock? That plastic frame handled them just fine, I gained great respect for Glocks that day.
    I'd rather have a .45 with me than nothing?
    rbuck, where did you get your information and or experience about Glocks?
    Steve

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    The Glock does not have a fully supported chamber, which leads to bulging on the lower rear end of the case. With a bad or already overworked piece of brass this leads to the case rupturing and blowing hot gas down the grip. Which in turn usually just blows the magazine out of the gun and nothing else but could lead to little pieces of plastic being embedded in your hand.

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    S.B.
    I have a Glock 21. My main load is a 230gr Lee cast of which I have shot a few thousand using 5.2gr of Win 231. That is the listed max load for that bullet powder combo. The lightest bullet my books show is a 155gr with a max powder charge of 7.7grs of 231. You can think they had 13grs of 231 loaded if you want, but I know of no pistol chambered for 45acp that would handle that load.
    That's 2/3 times the max listed load. My limited experience comes from shooting my 21 and three different 22s. One of the 22s only leaded lightly while the other two leaded rapidly. My 21 shows almost no lead after hundreds of rounds. 13grs of 231 should easily produce in excess of 50,000psi but I'm not going to try it and would suggest no one else does either as an unsupported 45acp case will not take that kind of pressure even if the Glock could. In a 44mag with a 225gr bullet, 8.5 grs of 231 is max at 24,800 cup. I don't think the 44 would take a load like that as it would surely be a MAJOR overload.
    After trying 13grs of 231 in a 45acp case, I'm not sure you can get a bullet fully seated. Check for yourself and see what you think. And , why would anyone shoot rounds known to be overloads?

  20. #20
    Member S.B.'s Avatar
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    I don't own a Glock, it belonged to my friend.
    Kid, you know as well as I that bad brass shouldn't be use for reloading?
    The load in question used a 200 grain WC and was measured wrong, he thought he was measuring 5 grains on the main beam and .? what ever on the smaller one but, had measured full grains on this one too. It's been years ago but, my point was Glocks aren't weak framed guns, they are actually much stronger than the Colts they were attempting to replaced?
    Steve

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