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Thread: Jim Creek Conditions?

  1. #1
    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Default Jim Creek Conditions?

    Looking to go to Jim Creek tomorrow- can anyone give me an update on current conditions, particularly the creek crossing and the mudholes past wolf point?

    Any updates would be appreciated.

    Has anyone been up the trail back by the Glacier? Not sure on the name, but it's right by Metal Creek. Info on how far it goes and conditions on that would also be appreciated.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  2. #2
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    Wolf Point mud trench is nearly dry. No standing water or sloppy mud. Dusty!

    Easy run to Metal Creek.

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    Thanks, SuperX.

    Much appreciated.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  4. #4

    Default Residents ....

    .... living in the KRPUA, however are voicing loudly and widely that the trails they need for access to their property are suffering badly under constantly increasing recreational motor use. This is a valid complaint from folks that have have lived back there for 40 yrs.
    They are clearly very upset. They want help from those enjoying the use of these trails, some of whom are clearly degrading them. I know Alaska ATV Club sponsored a commendable 'clearing party' of the inside trail (RS 2477).
    It is going to take more than that to arrive at a sustainable (or reasonably near) scenario for those whom must use the trails for supplies or trips to doctors appointments, etc.
    Word has it DNR is "passing the buck" and stepping down, saying BLM and Eklutna must approve any trail upgrades.
    A proactive approach would seem a better option.

    Don't flame the messenger here - we are passing on the message, as promised, for folks that do not have internet, among other impedances effecting their realities. Some sustainable trails are an issue that will have to be faced in the KRPUA - may as well start right now with this problematic, identifiable instance.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    .... living in the KRPUA, however are voicing loudly and widely that the trails they need for access to their property are suffering badly under constantly increasing recreational motor use. This is a valid complaint from folks that have have lived back there for 40 yrs.
    They are clearly very upset. They want help from those enjoying the use of these trails, some of whom are clearly degrading them. I know Alaska ATV Club sponsored a commendable 'clearing party' of the inside trail (RS 2477).
    It is going to take more than that to arrive at a sustainable (or reasonably near) scenario for those whom must use the trails for supplies or trips to doctors appointments, etc.
    Word has it DNR is "passing the buck" and stepping down, saying BLM and Eklutna must approve any trail upgrades.
    A proactive approach would seem a better option.

    Don't flame the messenger here - we are passing on the message, as promised, for folks that do not have internet, among other impedances effecting their realities. Some sustainable trails are an issue that will have to be faced in the KRPUA - may as well start right now with this problematic, identifiable instance.
    Geez Louise 68Bronco, do us a favor and give it a REST. Every time someone posts anything about JC you've got to reply with your standard Political Diatribe. You live there and don't like others riding there.........We get it! You have my sympathies, but LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION are the 3 rules of Real Estate. In the end you lost to DNR;get the hell over it or run for Governor to try and have it your way. In the meantime give it a rest already!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    .... living in the KRPUA, however are voicing loudly and widely that the trails they need for access to their property are suffering badly under constantly increasing recreational motor use. This is a valid complaint from folks that have have lived back there for 40 yrs.
    They are clearly very upset. They want help from those enjoying the use of these trails, some of whom are clearly degrading them. I know Alaska ATV Club sponsored a commendable 'clearing party' of the inside trail (RS 2477).
    It is going to take more than that to arrive at a sustainable (or reasonably near) scenario for those whom must use the trails for supplies or trips to doctors appointments, etc.
    Word has it DNR is "passing the buck" and stepping down, saying BLM and Eklutna must approve any trail upgrades.
    A proactive approach would seem a better option.

    Don't flame the messenger here - we are passing on the message, as promised, for folks that do not have internet, among other impedances effecting their realities. Some sustainable trails are an issue that will have to be faced in the KRPUA - may as well start right now with this problematic, identifiable instance.
    ???

    I ask for conditions and I get this? If you've read any of my posts you're well aware that the people I ride with and myself are aware of residents and we do our best to leave as little footprint as possible and to be respectful of private property. We haven't ridden KRPUA since Spring when there was still snow and ice back there. We enjoy the area but people like you have soured me on going out there, because even though it's state land you act like we're trespassing.

    For everyone else- we rode back there today and the conditions were ideal. Beautiful weather! The new trail around the washout at Wolf Point was well done, kudos to those involved. The mudholes were dry except up by the beaver dam, where we found some entertainingly high water but nothing we couldn't pass. The salmon have made it past the dams and we got some nice pictures of some beautiful bright Red's. It was indeed dusty! The bandana came in handy. We left early this morning and were out by 3pm. It was starting to get pretty crowded back there, which was expected for a holiday weekend. We did notice that the gate appeared to have been shoved in and then tied open. We parked at the parking lot down by the drag races, however. Less fuss, and it gets us past a lot of the area where people camp and we'd rather not ride there anyway.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  7. #7

    Default Dee, Dee

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
    ???

    I ask for conditions and I get this? If you've read any of my posts you're well aware that the people I ride with and myself are aware of residents and we do our best to leave as little footprint as possible and to be respectful of private property. We haven't ridden KRPUA since Spring when there was still snow and ice back there. We enjoy the area but people like you have soured me on going out there, because even though it's state land you act like we're trespassing.

    For everyone else- we rode back there today and the conditions were ideal. Beautiful weather! The new trail around the washout at Wolf Point was well done, kudos to those involved. The mudholes were dry except up by the beaver dam, where we found some entertainingly high water but nothing we couldn't pass. The salmon have made it past the dams and we got some nice pictures of some beautiful bright Red's. It was indeed dusty! The bandana came in handy. We left early this morning and were out by 3pm. It was starting to get pretty crowded back there, which was expected for a holiday weekend. We did notice that the gate appeared to have been shoved in and then tied open. We parked at the parking lot down by the drag races, however. Less fuss, and it gets us past a lot of the area where people camp and we'd rather not ride there anyway.
    The title of the thread you started is "Jim Cr. Conditions". I did not direct my reply at ANY individual , but to the general topic. Try not to take things so personally on these forums. I thought it was an OK place to voice the the 'conditions' from the perspective of the folks that lived back there and have asked that their concerns be passed on. Just trying to help them out. One of them has a hard time getting around as is w/o the extra hassles of their specific access being torn to hell by use levels that are up many, many, many times beyond just a few yrs. ago. They are just reaching out for help with the problems effecting them.
    I realize you are new to the area and may not understand that to its fullest - once again this was general info - and they have valid complaints - things that make them "mad". BTW, they do have trespasser issues and have been burglarized multiple times, too. Their land IS private land.
    Also, they also want Everyone to know they are not unsociable.

    Sorry, Sorry you interpreted it as a personal message - but very happy you enjoy the area. It is a great place.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    The title of the thread you started is "Jim Cr. Conditions". I did not direct my reply at ANY individual , but to the general topic. Try not to take things so personally on these forums. I thought it was an OK place to voice the the 'conditions' from the perspective of the folks that lived back there and have asked that their concerns be passed on. Just trying to help them out. One of them has a hard time getting around as is w/o the extra hassles of their specific access being torn to hell by use levels that are up many, many, many times beyond just a few yrs. ago. They are just reaching out for help with the problems effecting them.
    I realize you are new to the area and may not understand that to its fullest - once again this was general info - and they have valid complaints - things that make them "mad". BTW, they do have trespasser issues and have been burglarized multiple times, too. Their land IS private land.
    Also, they also want Everyone to know they are not unsociable.

    Sorry, Sorry you interpreted it as a personal message - but very happy you enjoy the area. It is a great place.
    It's not a matter of me taking it personal. It's a matter of it being obvious what my post was about and you turning it into your personal stump for your pet peeve. Start your own thread if you want to gripe. The topic here was obvious, not "general".

    Maybe if you tried working with the people here instead of trying to drive us out of KRPUA it'd work out better for you. It's pretty much a guarantee that the ones out there burning cars and shooting guns aren't frequenting these forums.

    All of us are well aware of what the problems are out there. We get jerked around by people like you all the time that decide to tar and feather all of us for what some morons are doing. I support the rights of the property owners, and can guarantee that my riding group doesn't tear things up.I'm tired of being confronted by angry property owners who think it's convenient to attack us instead of the real perpetrators. We've been stopped on public roads and trails, detained and questioned by people like you, so if you think the anger only goes one way, you're mistaken. I don't break the law, and I'm tired of being treated like I do.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
    It's not a matter of me taking it personal. It's a matter of it being obvious what my post was about and you turning it into your personal stump for your pet peeve. Start your own thread if you want to gripe. The topic here was obvious, not "general".

    Maybe if you tried working with the people here instead of trying to drive us out of KRPUA it'd work out better for you. It's pretty much a guarantee that the ones out there burning cars and shooting guns aren't frequenting these forums.

    All of us are well aware of what the problems are out there. We get jerked around by people like you all the time that decide to tar and feather all of us for what some morons are doing. I support the rights of the property owners, and can guarantee that my riding group doesn't tear things up.I'm tired of being confronted by angry property owners who think it's convenient to attack us instead of the real perpetrators. We've been stopped on public roads and trails, detained and questioned by people like you, so if you think the anger only goes one way, you're mistaken. I don't break the law, and I'm tired of being treated like I do.
    I certainly did not mean to hijack your thread and once again, Apologize. I really should have just posted it in "All Things Knik" or elsewhere, though it is another piece of "conditions" out there and since your question had been answered, mistakenly thought we may talk of additional existing conditions.
    Please don't judge how much work I have done or not done to try solve the problems as you really have no idea. The "people like you" is a sad assumption, too - one I have not made of you and will not make at random, ever. Nor have I ever suggested that anyone be driven from the Knik, in fact, quite the opposite.
    It bothers me that you feel attacked when I have pointed out that the landowners asked for help on this problem and I just agreed to pass on the message. Truly Dee, they feel they have no where at all to turn and are very discouraged. Three agencies - DNR, BLM, and Eklutna Inc. bouncing around the issue make it very complicated for them. I may PM you more about their difficulties, which are significant but really are more of a private and serious nature. You may be interested in knowing that I get calls from these folks every few days about new levels of the access degradation problem. DNR gave them my contact info.
    My intention here was to pass on that there is a problem not being addressed and hope that by making folks aware, we could help generate a solution with discussion. Users could help solve this with the cooperation of the controlling agencies and have testified on these ideas during the KRPUA process.
    I'll let the land owners know that all that has happened so far is that users are upset at the posting I was asked to do - to the point of considering their issue 'political diatribe' and don't seem willing to discuss solutions.
    Frankly, I believe it is a real problem of practicality that can be solved fairly easily - and should not be a political tug of war.

    I've done what I have been asked to do by pointing out the problem. It won't go away on its own. It is not my 'peeve' or 'stump' - I simply had compassion enough to listen to the landowners and the motivation to try and help after actually viewing the conditions with them.

    Adios.

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    Default JIm Creek

    What is kind of interesting is that when one goes to other areas of the state to four wheel and have fun, some of the trails are in much better condition. One that comes to mind is Eureka. It seems that the miners that work in the back country take time every few years and 'clean up the trail'. I know that it is for their own use but it helps everyone.
    Another area that has received a lot of 'extra' help is the trail at Swede lake. Matting has been put down in bad areas and the trail re-routed around bad areas.
    Then look at the Puritin Creek. There was a person that lived back there and would 'clean' up the trail every few years.
    What I do not understand is why this same type of help can not be done with the KRPUA. Is it because there are so many different controlling groups? Too mny different 'goverment' hands involved? It has been a while since I have been riding back there but my family has enjoyed this area for almost 40 years. It is sad to see much of it 'restricted' now. But I guess that goes with progress.
    Some how we all need to work together and attempt to make the KRPUA a world class area that EVERYONE can enjoy.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    I'll let the land owners know that all that has happened so far is that users are upset at the posting I was asked to do - to the point of considering their issue 'political diatribe' and don't seem willing to discuss solutions.
    I think that telling the land owners that the "users" are upset about the message you passed on would be rather disingenous considering I'm only one person and a rare user of the KRPUA area. I'm not upset at the message, I'm upset at the approach you have. There's a difference.

    If you really want an idea what the users think, then you should post an alternate thread with a clear topic, post the complaints of the property owners in a non-accusatory way, and ask for help and suggestions from the people who regularly use KRPUA. Perhaps even educate the "newbies" on where the State land ends, if it's not clearly marked. That would be a good service to the community and to the KRPUA users.

    I truly don't believe that the people who are doing the damage are the types to join an online community forum like this to discuss their interests. That doesn't mean that nothing can be done. I still think that the solution would be that users try to encourage other people to behave, either through talking to them if they seem open, or calling the cops if they seem inebriated or confrontational. You may even find that some people who really like riding the area could be enlisted as a type of community patrol. Maybe all those ideas have been floated before and didn't pan out but surely the large group of users here could do something if they teamed up.

    I just get frustrated when I feel accused and since nearly all access to State lands open to ATV riding are near to private property, running into angry owners who seek us out on the public land is getting more common. It's happened to us, and I feel as though we get convicted simply because we are riding an ATV, even when we were nowhere near the private property that was encroached upon. It's frustrating to us, also, and we have motivation to turn law breakers in for that reason as well as just common decency. I'm on your side on the private property issue- private property should always be respected. I apologize for getting angry.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    What is kind of interesting is that when one goes to other areas of the state to four wheel and have fun, some of the trails are in much better condition. One that comes to mind is Eureka. It seems that the miners that work in the back country take time every few years and 'clean up the trail'. I know that it is for their own use but it helps everyone.
    Another area that has received a lot of 'extra' help is the trail at Swede lake. Matting has been put down in bad areas and the trail re-routed around bad areas.
    Then look at the Puritin Creek. There was a person that lived back there and would 'clean' up the trail every few years.
    What I do not understand is why this same type of help can not be done with the KRPUA. Is it because there are so many different controlling groups? Too mny different 'goverment' hands involved? It has been a while since I have been riding back there but my family has enjoyed this area for almost 40 years. It is sad to see much of it 'restricted' now. But I guess that goes with progress.
    Some how we all need to work together and attempt to make the KRPUA a world class area that EVERYONE can enjoy.
    A couple things that I'd note right off. One is sheer numbers of users. I can't say for certain, but I'd think Jim Creek probably sees more use than the other trails because it's close to Anchorage. The other is that Jim Creek is often soggy and the ground easy to tear up. The other trails get muddy too, but they dry out, whereas Jim Creek has areas that say wet and even under water year round. Those seem to be the areas that get torn up the worst.

    I do agree that if everyone got involved that things could be much improved, however. You make a great point about the way things are handled differently at the other trails.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  13. #13

    Default Yes, Dee ......

    You are correct, it would be disingenuous to base the message on a single factor - I wish that were the case.
    It will take more concerned folks/new blood like yourself to arrive at solutions. You have my encouragement and I would take this opportunity to remind that there are vast web sources on the KRPUA process.
    Thanks for the apology - 'accusatory' was not my intent, yet I know I get too pointed after working for solutions for over two decades. I am too aware of what the 'users' think and simply don't have the energy to rehash. There is a certain measure of truth to AKKCChief's , "....... lost to DNR ...".

    Thanks

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