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Thread: Sheep (a few notes)

  1. #1

    Default Sheep (a few notes)

    Shooting Sheep (a few notes)
    1) 2 people – 1 shooter – 1 coach
    a. coach describes actions/location of animal to be harvested
    i. using spotting scope to determine animal location and if wounded
    ii. after first shot relocates targeted animal
    b. 1 shot and wait
    i. after animals calm down and target animal relocated – second shot fired.
    c. largest animal harvested first
    d. “Targeted” animal not changed
    e. after targeted animal secured, shooter/coach roles reversed
    2) Regardless of distance “field of fire” an important consideration
    a. To allow for monitoring after first shot
    b. To allow for follow up shooting
    Joe (Ak)

  2. #2

    Wink

    Hmm...I would never rely on others to "coach" me into which animal to shoot. My mind is fully made up, before I put the crosshairs on it. I have on one ocassion though had to use one rifle and two hunters. In that case, we talked it out and killed two rams. Never had to get into the coin toss to sort out who was going to tag what. Ain't gonna let myself get into that aspect either.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Hmm...I would never rely on others to "coach" me into which animal to shoot. My mind is fully made up, before I put the crosshairs on it. I have on one ocassion though had to use one rifle and two hunters. In that case, we talked it out and killed two rams. Never had to get into the coin toss to sort out who was going to tag what. Ain't gonna let myself get into that aspect either.
    Sorry - perhaps I should have been clearer. "Coaching" has nothing to do with "who gets which animal" - it has to do with focusing the effort on the same animal once the shooting starts.
    Joe (Ak)

  4. #4

    Default

    Me too, we always decide before we head afield on who gets the first shot, then it alternates everyday. I do have my partner watch when I am shooting and I do the same but it's not like calling in artillery. No need in making it any harder than it needs to be.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    shooting sheep (a few notes)
    1) 2 people – 1 shooter – 1 coach
    a. Coach describes actions/location of animal to be harvested
    i. Using spotting scope to determine animal location and if wounded
    ii. After first shot relocates targeted animal
    b. 1 shot and wait
    i. After animals calm down and target animal relocated – second shot fired.
    C. Largest animal harvested first
    d. “targeted” animal not changed
    e. After targeted animal secured, shooter/coach roles reversed
    2) regardless of distance “field of fire” an important consideration
    a. To allow for monitoring after first shot
    b. To allow for follow up shooting
    joe (ak)
    the coach has nothing to with deciding who is going to shoot which animal - they simply focus on securing the animal that was MUTUALLY decided would be harvested.

  6. #6

    Default

    Isn't this pretty standard stuff? Seems that this is the way that I do things when i'm hunting with someone. But on occasion, there is the chance that 2 animals can be taken at the same time so each hunter is basically on his own. It's only happened to me a few times and worked out fine.

  7. #7
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the post, Joe. Many on this forum don't understand the motives behind the type of hunting you, and a couple other members, are most familiar with.
    Few of us venture afield with the risk of our actions resulting in the loss of our livlihood.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Shooting Sheep (a few notes)
    1) 2 people – 1 shooter – 1 coach
    a. coach describes actions/location of animal to be harvested
    i. using spotting scope to determine animal location and if wounded
    ii. after first shot relocates targeted animal
    b. 1 shot and wait
    i. after animals calm down and target animal relocated – second shot fired.
    c. largest animal harvested first
    d. “Targeted” animal not changed
    e. after targeted animal secured, shooter/coach roles reversed
    2) Regardless of distance “field of fire” an important consideration
    a. To allow for monitoring after first shot
    b. To allow for follow up shooting
    Joe (Ak)

    Who would have thought that people (read "hunters") would need a written procedure to go hunting....crazy.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Thanks for the post, Joe. Many on this forum don't understand the motives behind the type of hunting you, and a couple other members, are most familiar with.
    Few of us venture afield with the risk of our actions resulting in the loss of our livlihood.
    Those are certainly very valid points.
    The outline I posted certainly is not the "only" way shoot sheep. However, it does minimize the problem killing or wounding the wrong sheep and/or ending up with an "extra" one. And that should be of concern regardless of whether it is a guided or unguided hunt.

    Really appreciate your postings.
    Joe (Ak)

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Thanks for the post, Joe. Many on this forum don't understand the motives behind the type of hunting you, and a couple other members, are most familiar with.
    Few of us venture afield with the risk of our actions resulting in the loss of our livlihood.
    You don't know 99% of the people that post here yet you feel free to go ahead and label us/them as not being up to par with you and a few others.

    This use to be a fun place to hang out and talk about hunting and learning new things, too bad a few have to spoil it for everyone else. You want division amongst hunters, your off to a great start, congratulations.

  11. #11

    Default Mentors

    Joe,

    I have watched your posts and in many ways I agree. One of the difficult problems that younger Alaskan hunters have especially with Dall Sheep is that there is a real specific lack of mentorship and organizations that used to provide that mentorship are sadly trying to reform. I know that you provide workshops to provide that mentorship and I believe that you probably would do them gratis but many people have to pay for something before they place value on it and actually feel that it is important. There are many methods of mentorship and you can actually learn on your own.

    I know that I didn't learn about sheep hunting from my father who was a good moose hunter that had limitations placed by school. He did the best he could with what he could and provided me with life lessons that I have sought to pass on with my son.

    I learned about sheep hunting from a master sheep hunter Tom Butler. He taught me about all of the elements necessary for survival first. Then we explained elements of what is a trophy dall sheep. How to stalk and how to shoot. He then basically let me learn by doing from there.

    I noticed that James. Bohntr21. has done much for finding mentors to condition with and talk sheep with. Other hunters have done the same. It gets hard to make a decision when you have walked a long ways with a heavy pack. Most of the people on this forum are hunting this way. Any full curl legal dall ram is a trophy and we value this resource that we can't but try to count coupe when we are successful.

    Many people wonder why I continue to write in notebooks and talk to old time guides. They are repositories of knowledge. Most of the things that they knew aren't written down. I remembering talking to Jack Lee and he was extremely excited about talking about piloting a hunter to the world record ram. I thought about it and I just let him continue full steam even though I had conversed with Jack Wilson about Swank's World Record Ram. Well, Jack had guided Frank Cooke to the World Record Ram and I just didn't realize what pearls of wisdom that were available to me. This forum shouldn't be negative as it has grown to be.

    I know that I make mistakes constantly. I know that it is better for me to own up to those mistakes and learn from them. I think that is what many of the young successful hunters are doing. I know that sheep hunting has evolved to contain many elements that border on batcave technology.

    I talked with Urban Rahoi about two weeks ago. He told me that he had guided Warren Page, the famous gunwriter, and he didn't find him to be the muse or mindful conservationist that we often associate famous hunters with. Urban said that Warren violated game rules and shot a grizzly without a tag. He went in to Tok pickup up a tag and then flew back out to his camp to tag it. Basically putting him as a guide out to dry.

    This is miles away from the problems of young hunters who shoot immature rams and get busted for it. I feel that some leeway should be given to them as they are learning and have the best interest of the resource at heart. I hate game wastage and believe that you should be aware of your capabilites and not wound game. I think that these discussions are good. I have seen more "red-tagged" sheep this year than most.

    I enjoy reading the experience of young hunters shooting their first sheep. It is a special moment in a hunter's career and I do appreciate people sharing it. I know that I would look at annulae as a last possible choice to judge legality of a sheep. I hope that if hunters take the mentorship lessons to heart that they will learn.

    I hope that everybody enjoys a safe, rewarding hunting season and remembers that Sheep Hunting is one of the strongest measures of an individual. You are trophy hunting and it is your behavior and treatment of the land that people care about not the size of your sheep.

    Sincerely,
    Thomas

  12. #12
    Member oakman's Avatar
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    Default my understanding

    I see a few differences here. Joe used the word many and you have interpreted that as being the majority, most, all, etc. Many can simply mean more than a few.

    In my opinion there is much evidence to show that there are people that hunt in this state that don't make very good decisions while hunting. That may be driving trucks onto the tundra, shooting and wasting caribou, shooting sub-legal animals, shooting out of range, not following up on animals that could be hit, etc.

    I took this as good information.

    For me, I'd rather see good back and forth discussion than a post with dead animal and 50 guys saying, "great sheep, way to go".

    The whole idea here is to share ideas and information so that we may all learn from each other.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    You don't know 99% of the people that post here yet you feel free to go ahead and label us/them as not being up to par with you and a few others.

    This use to be a fun place to hang out and talk about hunting and learning new things, too bad a few have to spoil it for everyone else. You want division amongst hunters, your off to a great start, congratulations.

  13. #13

    Default

    That post wasn't directed at Joe.

  14. #14
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AkHunter45 View Post
    That post wasn't directed at Joe.
    That post was directed at me. 45 likes to ring my gong at 600 yds once in a while. But like all 600 yd shots, it's usually a miss.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  15. #15

    Default

    Wrong, I don't do 600 yards shots and I don't take cheap shots like some folks around here.

  16. #16
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    Default

    I appreciate the original post and recognize the reasons for a system like it....I know one specific individual who accidentally shot two sheep in the confusion of the moment and was heavily and rightly penalized. Thanks again.

  17. #17
    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Shooting Sheep (a few notes)
    1) 2 people – 1 shooter – 1 coach
    a. coach describes actions/location of animal to be harvested
    i. using spotting scope to determine animal location and if wounded
    ii. after first shot relocates targeted animal
    b. 1 shot and wait
    i. after animals calm down and target animal relocated – second shot fired.
    c. largest animal harvested first
    d. “Targeted” animal not changed
    e. after targeted animal secured, shooter/coach roles reversed
    2) Regardless of distance “field of fire” an important consideration
    a. To allow for monitoring after first shot
    b. To allow for follow up shooting
    Joe (Ak)

    I believe each person who enters the field is responsible for his/her actions, and knowing the regs, but it sounds like you are questioning all hunters abilities to hunt without a guide.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  18. #18
    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
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    Default

    I think I'm going to like it more when sheep hunting is by draw only. If we had discussed this two years ago I would never have made such a statement as that. Just never seen so much cutting of throats over any particular type of hunting before.

    It's evolved into a game of capture the white flag with two-man teams sprinting up ridges.

    Very sad.

    Taylor

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pike_palace View Post
    I believe each person who enters the field is responsible for his/her actions, and knowing the regs, but it sounds like you are questioning all hunters abilities to hunt without a guide.
    The process outlined has NOTHING to do with guided - unguided or whatever. It has to do with following a process that minimizes the chances of shooting an animal by mistake - having one get away wounded - shooting more than allowed by regulation.
    There is no difference (or at least shouldn't be) between the responsibility of a guide and his client or two long time hunting partners to the resource or ethical standards they should abide by.
    The outline I presented applies equally whether a person has guided for over 250 sheep or whether it is two hunters hunting sheep for the first time. It is just as important for me to "mark" (make certain I can identify) the potential animal to be harvested as for the hunter on his first hunt regardless of species.
    Though there is a real tendency to try and categorize guides and guided hunters from "non-guided" - the bottom line is we all have the same responsibility to the resource and responsibility for our individual conduct.
    Joe (Ak)

  20. #20

    Default Curious...

    So are you against solo sheep hunting? Do you feel that there should always be a spotter for a shooter? Just wondering.

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