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Thread: Remington Brass inferior to Winchester: Urban Legend

  1. #1

    Default Remington Brass inferior to Winchester: Urban Legend

    Since the built-in censor on this board won't let me post the correct initials, I'll just call this an Urban Legend.

    Saw a reply from Snowwolfe on the sell/swap etc forum, where he tells this guy where he can find new 375 H&H brass, and then says, "...Unless youy are lucky, they'll only have Rem brass."

    Where did the idea that Remington Brass is junk come from?

    Back in `94, when I got into benchrest quality reloading, it was Winchester that was "out of favor".

    Actually, unless you are ponying up the Big Bux for Norma, Weatherby, Lapua and Nosler brass, there is not a whole lot of difference.

    I have some ancient Speer/DWM brass; bought in the 70's. It's nice, came in a nice pkg; but no "better" than some old Rem/Peters I pulled out of the huge bin at Carter's Country Range down in Houston in `85.

    Actually, unless you really know what you are doing with your brass, and have a rifle with a custom chamber and knowledge of reloading to minimize case stretching and brass "working"; it is 6 of one or half-dozen of the other.

    I am glad to see so many support Winchester; whoever the corporate entity is that uses the Winny name to sell components. If more had bought Win rifles, they would not have gone out of biz.

    If you are buying Bulk Pack brass, which is about all that is around, (because who but a discerning reloader buys individual 20 rd boxes these days; who can afford to), you are already diminishing your efforts.

    Ever weigh each piece of brass? Uniform the primer pockets, *not just clean them* (no evidence cleaning primer pkt residue matters at all), broach the primer channel, and anneal your case necks? Not to mention use precision reloading dies and bullet seating tools, feel-seat priming tools, and quaility cartridge cases?

    If not, (most don't), then the matter of which brass is "better" is without merit or meaning to you.

    Funny, more people than ever are interested in accurate shooting. They pony-up the Big Bux for Custom barrels and Complete Rifles w/guarantees of .25moa etc, and pay for Nightforce Scopes.

    But these guys aren't willing to learn to make their rifles "shoot". They put crummy bases and rings on their $4,000 rifles; and shoot Federal American Eagle ammo and wonder why their gun doesn't shoot?

    All the Remington brass I have ever bought has been "GOOD".

    If you know what you are going to do with it, Remington Brass will serve you just fine. If you don't really have a clue, if it makes you feel any better to buy what others recommend, maybe you better stick to Winchester.

    The guys at Mountainview Sports say "Nobody is interested in reloading anymore. They come in and plunk down $50 for "premium" ammo and leave". That "premium ammo" won't shoot any better than the cheap stuff, but people want to Buy Their Way to a solution.

    Winchester brass might have longer life characteristics, in cartridges like standard non-magnums; but how much so? If you are loading Big Magnums to max velocity, no brass on earth has much life after 4 loadings unless using a Perfect Chamber. Everybody up here (mostly) wants to venture forth able to prevail in a bear encounter; at least when they are about and foraging. Magnums and .30-06 standard size ctgs are loaded up to the max under those expectations.

    No brass will have "long life" when loaded to almost max levels. No matter if Winchester or not.

    If you want to see your Remington brass perform, try only neck-sizing your once-fired brass. Size the neck only halway down if you really want to see accurate results! Try only full-length sizing your brass only when the bolt has resistance on closing; and then only bump the shoulder back a smidge.

    You might just be suprised about your Remington Brass.

  2. #2
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    Default Remington brass.....

    Well,.......I don't know that it is junk, but I would prefer Winchester over Remington or Federal. My main complaint with it is that it is somewhat thicker and softer than Winchester and Winchester is more consistent in temper and thickness.

    Lapua makes the very best brass, but for only a few calibers. Norma is the best for the most calibers and fortunately expanding production to include a few more common calibers. These two, however are significantly more expensive than Win, Rem or Federal. Starline and Jameson are brass specialty companies and make a better product for a little more money. I would prefer these cases.

    I have known several good bench rest shooters over the years but never knew one to use Remington brass. Of course, Lapua is available for all target calibers. Norma makes Weatherby brass, Jameson makes Dakota's brass and I'm sure one of the better brass makers make the Nosler brass. All of these are a cut above the rest but also much more money. I suppose a shooter will decide if the higher price is justified for the better quality. As for me and the few thousand rounds I load each year, I'll pay for the quality of Lapua and Starline.

    You are right about the life of brass being a function of the load and the technique in loading. There's no reason not to get 10-12 loads from a brass case even the heavy belted magnum calibers. Winchester does typically outlast Remington brass in most calibers in this regard.

    Winchester brass is made by Olin Corporation, located somewhere around Alton, Illinois. They own it and the Winchester name. This company has nothing to do with U.S. Repeating Arms, who are/were licensed to make guns under the Winchester name. This Winchester name license will once again be up for grabs in 2007. Maybe some one will buy that and make a good rifle once again, there hasn't been a good Winchester rifle made since 1963. (That should raise an ire or eye brow.)

    I will say that every one that I know, who makes there own ammo for competition, puts alot of time and money into their brass. They believe the best brass makes the best ammo. I will agree. The uniformity of the brass case is what determines the uniformity of the point of impact, more so than any other component of the cartridge. There aren't very many bad bullets or primers. I'll opt for the good stuff when I can afford it.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  3. #3
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    Default

    Lester,
    You ever check the neck thickness of brass? A coworker is getting into neck turning and noticed that the remington brass he was turning tended to be a little thicker on one side than the other. The federal brass he checked seemed to be more uniform. This is all 300win mag brass picked up at the range. So far he hasn't checked win brass. He's a very experienced shooter and reloader and is just getting going on a new rifle he picked up. Shooting bench rest, I'm sure you've dabbled with neck turning and what not. If you have, what's your experience been with this (ie. thickness consistency between brass brands, concentricity, etc.)?
    I'm shooting a Tikka T3 in 300wsm and have gotten some pretty good loads with my Win brass, with the extent of brass prep just being primer pocket uniforming and flash hole deburring. Eventhough I've had good results (3/8" 3 shot group @ 100yds) with Win brass, I'm a component nut and thinking about trying out the Remington brass....and maybe Norma (heard their brass is a little on the soft side) just to see what happens. Would like to see Nosler come out with 300wsm brass as it looks like pretty good stuff. Was a little surprised that they haven't offered this caliber brass since their first rifle released was a 300wsm.

  4. #4
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    Red face Case volume?

    Some gun writers, old timers eg. Bob Hagel, did tests on case volume in diffrent makes of brass. I believe they used water. If memory serves this would effect pressure with the same powder type, same charges when the only diffrence is the brand of brass. Any one else herd of this?Bill.

  5. #5
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    Default Brass thickness

    Oldtimer or not, Remington brass is very thick and that does not correlate to longer lasting. It is problems in custom, minimum SAAMI spec chambers and in many rifles from the likes of Sako, Steyr, Cooper, Dakota, etc. Or any rifle which have tight chambers or necks. Remington M700 rifles seem to have chambers built for Remington brass, that's a good mix but for many other makers, thinner Winchester, Norma or Lapua brass is better. For some calibers, wildcatted by necking up several calibers, the Remington's thicker neck is an advantage. Funny though, their 416 Remington brass is thin necked, it is just necked up 8mm brass with 416 headstamp. I guess they weren't using that for much of nothin'.

    In some calibers I still use and prefer the thicker walls of the Remington, but the internal capacity of the case is less than all other brass, charges must be reduced if swithcing to Remington brass from another manufacturer. Work up your loads in the brass you want to use and lay in a good supply of it.

    There is variations in brass thickness and uniformity in all brands. When these variations are kept to a minimum in manufacture, you have a better, more reliable product to work with. That's what makes Lapua so good it is always the same temper, thicknes, primer pocket depth and diameter. It is concentric and dimensionally as close to specs as can be made. The other companies struggle over a price/quality relationship to keep it marketable. These brands need various degrees of brass prep before loading for best accuracy, Lapua needs nothing except a check book!
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I never suggester Remington brass was junk. Most reloaders like options to buy different products. The only point I was trying to make was that Winchester 375 H&H brass is almost impossible to find in local stores. So is WW 458 WM. Before you jump to conclusions you should at least explore as to why I commented what I did.
    I would use Remington brass if I had to and wouldnt give it much thought, but I still prefer WW brass as I can usually work up hotter loads in it than I can with Remington.
    I have turned many case necks and reamed out primer pockets and run my loaded ammo to check it for run out using both WW and Rem brass. I would still buy WW as my first choice but that doesnt suggest Rem is junk.
    Murphy is spot on as usual, Lapua is the best hands down but you pay for it and for me in a hunting rifle it is not needed.
    Tennessee

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    Remington brass is junk, at least compared to the other brands of brass that I prefer, and that's Winchester and Norma. I'd rather use once-fired Federal hulls over any new Remington brass.

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