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Thread: Now a bit more area to camp at a nice free area close by with facilities

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    Thumbs up Now a bit more area to camp at a nice free area close by with facilities

    When's the last time you heard of something like that happening?

    Never is the likely answer. But it just did happen on the North shore of Kasilof beach, where during dipnet season its free to camp, the dumpters get dumped regularly, and the port-a-jons are also fairly well maintained.

    They just moved the historic old Watchman's Cabin out of there to protect it, now leaving more room to camp. Yay!

    http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/ap_al...ry/908191.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by FamilyMan View Post
    When's the last time you heard of something like that happening?

    Never is the likely answer. But it just did happen on the North shore of Kasilof beach, where during dipnet season its free to camp, the dumpters get dumped regularly, and the port-a-jons are also fairly well maintained.

    They just moved the historic old Watchman's Cabin out of there to protect it, now leaving more room to camp. Yay!

    http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/ap_al...ry/908191.html
    O.K I am going to assume this is a put on - please tell me you are not serious - please please please. It has been a long weekend with rain and bad news from the fair.

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    Arrow serious, yes, but why bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    O.K I am going to assume this is a put on - please tell me you are not serious - please please please. It has been a long weekend with rain and bad news from the fair.
    I guess I post tongue in cheek often enough that a spoof might be suspected... but I posted the link to the ADN article - its serious.

    But why is it bad? Its one of the oldest buildings on the entire peninsula and it was getting torn up and peed on, and now it'll be preserved.

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    Default The point?

    I guess the question is, what's the point in preserving it if it's not in it's original location. It wasn't the Safeway/ Fred Meyer watchman's cabin (which is the cheesy sort of tourist trap I foresee in it's future) it was the Kasilof watchman's cabin. Are they going to dig-up the remains of the good folks who used to live there and move them as well, or just let people continue to desecrate the graves as it's closer than walking all the way to the porta-jons?

    Sorry, I don't share your enthusiasm.

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    Default I feel a little better after reading the article.

    Thanks for the link FamilyMan, I am glad to know they're at least taking the building's historical significance seriously, but I'd still rather see the average dipnetter show some respect and allow it to be left in it's proper home. I think it's a safe bet that it will never be returned. Costly restoration seems unlikely to me as well, but we'll see.

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    Default sad situation

    It is a sad state of affairs when ADF&G and the Board of Fisheries create a fishery with no consideration of impacts on other users of the area. A cabin that withstood 120 years of human use of the area must be moved because a new dip net fishery is created without any consideration to the impacts of thousands of people on the land and cultural resources. Then to top it off the agencies point fingers at one another until a group of citizens see no hope but to move the cabin from its historic site. They hope to move it back someday but that is unlikely given it will be incorporated into the museum and people will want to keep it at the new site.

    So now we let the pigs of the dip net fishery define who we are - they leave trash on the beach, camp on the dunes, crap in adjacent home owners yards, block roads used for commercial activities, and trash culural sites. Nice. Maybe the dip net people who really care about some of these things should pressure the State and our local legislators to do something to clean this mess up. It is not a pretty site and believe me people have gathered enough pictures and this action to move the cabin will not be forgotten at future Board of Fish meetings or in the discussion of the impacts of the fishery on the locals.

    We can have a clean dip net fishery or none at all - that is what the choices are. And for the record there is no free camping at the cabin site - that is DNR school trust land and not open to camping, using it as a toilet, or anything else.

    I always wonder what is wrong with people who for some reason feel they can treat the rest of society this way. They obviously have no social responsibility.

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    Thumbs up Nerka, I agree so where is your problem paper?

    I know you had eye surgery and was down for a while. Company too. But I'm waiting for your thoughtful and thought out problem paper on the dipnet fishery. Don't forget about it... please. It is sad when 1 to 2 percent of a fishery black balls the whole crowd. Of course, being the new kid on the block, everyone wants to test you or monday night QB. you.
    I don't apoligize for those slobs or represent them. They are the unthoughtful and losers of the bunch. Enough said.
    I don't look at the cabin being moved as such a bad thing though. Move it to where it will be protected and enjoyed. Leaving it where it is is just asking for someone to eventually burn it down in a drunken state. Yea... those people exist.
    I'm originally from long Island, New York. There is a place called old bethpage. Houses from all over the Island were moved there to protect them from damage. Some of these houses were from the 1600's. Most from the 1700's. They are there today cause some people cared enough to move them where they would be protected.
    The BOF is not tasked with social engineering. They monitor and decide the fishery and allocation. It is up to the rest of us, local government/borough/state and all people involved with the fishery, to handle the social aspect. That said..... Where do we start?

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    Default sorry guys but... wise up

    I don't leave any trace when I camp and I didn't pee on the cabin... Yes, I'll agree that the typical dipnet season does leave the place worse than it was.

    I don't need anyone to "share in my enthusiasm" - I was just trying to find a bright spot. Heck, its only an additional few square feet of camp space; really means nothing... and I too am sorry it won't grace the presence of that beach; it looked good there, and proper.

    I'm glad they'll take care of it and restore it.

    I was trying to find a bright spot in the situation and sorry I struck a nerve. It seemed very unusual (as in it NEVER happens) that an actual free, close, beautiful, maintained camp area gets more room, so I thought I'd mention that aspect of it.

    How about a glass-half-full outlook in a thirsty situation, guys? Not like you can change the cabin situation now anyways.

    Regarding the cabin moving (and not the dipnet-trashery), if wisdom is knowing the difference between working to fix the situations you can fix, and not flailing uselessly and sadly against those that you can't, then there's some wising up to do around here.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Thumbs up right on....

    Don't ever apoligize for feeling like something is going right. The watchmen's cabin is second-fold to the whole scenario. Just glad that they have now moved it to safety.

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    Default working on it

    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I know you had eye surgery and was down for a while. Company too. But I'm waiting for your thoughtful and thought out problem paper on the dipnet fishery. Don't forget about it... please. Where do we start?
    I have not forgotten. However, the eye issue is more than I anticipated. Something simple has turned into double vision and so I need to get that solved first and foremost. I will not forget this and I can write as proof from this post. However, the eyes get strained so I need to take it easy until everything is worked out with the doctor. No excuse just reality jumping in.

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Default

    Scottsum, I see a pattern with your posts. First, you post how bad the other party is. Then, after taking in a few details, you realize that the other parties aren't as bad as you internally think they might be.

    A good idea is to take a few minutes and think prior to hot headed responses to every issue.

    Family Man, thanks for posting this. I went down with my family a few weeks ago to watch the area. The people that I was around were very nice and responsible. I didn't dipnet. My son played on the beach (great sand) and we watched the dipnetters. I was fortunate to miss all the negativity that some here are focused on.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    Default bird watching

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Scottsum, I see a pattern with your posts. First, you post how bad the other party is. Then, after taking in a few details, you realize that the other parties aren't as bad as you internally think they might be.

    A good idea is to take a few minutes and think prior to hot headed responses to every issue.

    Family Man, thanks for posting this. I went down with my family a few weeks ago to watch the area. The people that I was around were very nice and responsible. I didn't dipnet. My son played on the beach (great sand) and we watched the dipnetters. I was fortunate to miss all the negativity that some here are focused on.
    If you want one of the best spots on the peninsula right now to watch shorebirds migrating go to the north shore of the Kasilof River as the tide is coming in. It pushes the shorebirds in close for observation. Also, in Feb go down and watch 5000 rock sandpipers feeding at 20 below.

    Just something else to do at Kasilof - not trying to hijack the thread into a bird watching thread.

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    Default need picture of ex-cabin site

    If anyone does, please post a picture of where the cabin was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    If you want one of the best spots on the peninsula right now to watch shorebirds migrating go to the north shore of the Kasilof River as the tide is coming in. It pushes the shorebirds in close for observation. Also, in Feb go down and watch 5000 rock sandpipers feeding at 20 below.

    Just something else to do at Kasilof - not trying to hijack the thread into a bird watching thread.

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    Default Hot-headed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Scottsum, I see a pattern with your posts. First, you post how bad the other party is. Then, after taking in a few details, you realize that the other parties aren't as bad as you internally think they might be.

    A good idea is to take a few minutes and think prior to hot headed responses to every issue.

    Family Man, thanks for posting this. I went down with my family a few weeks ago to watch the area. The people that I was around were very nice and responsible. I didn't dipnet. My son played on the beach (great sand) and we watched the dipnetters. I was fortunate to miss all the negativity that some here are focused on.
    I don't think I'd call my response to this one "hotheaded" but thanks for your concern. I do try to see things from all perspectives and sometimes it takes some conversation for me to work things-out. When it comes to commercial fishing and dipnetting, I do have a bias, and I don't apologize for it. I have tried to make some constructive comments on this forum in an effort to affect some positive change. In truth, I would love to see dipnetting closed completely, but that is not likely to happen so I am willing to try to help brainstorm for some better decisions to be made in the future.

    If you had to battle the dipnetters every time you went to town for groceries, or for a part you desperately need in the next hour before the tide changes, you might see a bit more than the beauty of the scenery from afar. If you've just one time tried to crawl-up to one of your favorite shallow ponds to sneak-up and jump some ducks, only to look over and see some dipnetter's crap and toilet paper right next to your elbow, your view might not be so rosey.

    Many of us who live here are tired of it, so I'm sorry if I seem a bit hot-headed, but moving the cabin is just another example of putting this user group before everything else. Forget about conservation, forget about historical sites, forget about the health of the flats, sea grass, protective dunes, etc. Just give the dipnetters their free and easy food! (o.k. that was a bit hot-headed)

    My follow-up was simply to try to find a bright spot in a bad situation. The problem is, I see very few bright spots and too much bad in this situation. If it seems like I'm wishy-washy, it's only because I am trying very hard to hate the game and not the players. I realize dipnetters are people too and are just trying to feed their families, as are the rest of us, but for those of us who are affected by this every day, something does desperately need to change. IMO the removal of the cabin is just another way to avoid confrontation without dealing with the real problem.

    I'd love to stay positive, but unfortunately, when you live here, somehow "the negativity that some here are focused on" just seems to beg for your undivided attention. I sincerely wish it were otherwise.

    So, I've taken your recommended few minutes and this is what I've come-up with. You may take this as hot-headed as well, and if so, I apologize, that is not my intent. But it's pretty hard not to get irritated when someone's taking a dump on your front lawn

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    Question What will help?

    Scott, Sorry that season works out so badly for you; I can understand and empathize with the points you relate about that.

    Likely there are many in Talkeetna that dislike the Moose Dropping Festival, when the town grows by 6+ times over for a short while, but your season is longer, and its users less supervised.

    Is there anything that I or others can do to help, other than just stay away? I don't bring that up as something I'm willing to do, but if there is anything else I could do besides the obvious, say it.

    The obvious:
    - leave no trace while in the field, for example when camping
    - be respectful of all private property and other people
    - don't kill the resources (the dunes, fish you don't need, etc...)

    Again... Sorry. Especially since I started this thread...

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Nerka, thanks for the head's up. I'll try to get down and test out the new lens.

    Scottsum, I do not understand your predicament. I do know a few things. This is a free country and you are free to move somewhere else if you choose. I also understand that my property taxes are high and that I and the other property tax payers in my community pay for many of the services that you and others use without paying for any of them.

    Good luck to you with your battle to end dipnetting (or whatever your desire is). I'll fight for the right of Alaskan families. It's a free market. You are free to do as you wish.

    I'm glad that the area on the Kasilof has been expanded.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  17. #17

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    as I see it, it is all part of the g.a.s .program.- The Great Alaskan Sportsman. It's not just the mess the personal use fishermen are making of the beach, the undereported harvest or the sale and waste of the harvested fish.Look at the threads in the hunting forum and note the posters that are proudly posting about taking potshots at questionably legal rams at distances which most ethical hunters would never attempt.
    Recently spoke to someone who recieved a Ressurection Pass Caribou Permit, only to find that he couldn't take his 4 wheeler up there and gave it up.
    What it boils down to folks, I'm afraid is that an increasing number of us nimrods are just plain slobs. Please let us all try to remember not to leave our good manners at home.

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    Default I'm lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Nerka, thanks for the head's up. I'll try to get down and test out the new lens.

    Scottsum, I do not understand your predicament. I do know a few things. This is a free country and you are free to move somewhere else if you choose. I also understand that my property taxes are high and that I and the other property tax payers in my community pay for many of the services that you and others use without paying for any of them.

    Good luck to you with your battle to end dipnetting (or whatever your desire is). I'll fight for the right of Alaskan families. It's a free market. You are free to do as you wish.

    I'm glad that the area on the Kasilof has been expanded.
    Please explain. The last time I checked, I too paid property taxes. And if anyone's not paying their share, wouldn't it be all the good folks in Anchorage who don't have a sales tax at all? (Not that I complain when I'm up there mind you) In reality, I don't even take the $20,000.00 exemption I'm allowed on my property taxes because I like good roads and health care and I have kids in public school. Somebody must pay for these services and I am more than willing to pay for them if I'm going to take advantage of them. So you really have me confused as to how you're paying my way.

    Family Man, you're fine. It's just the basic lack of respect and the idea, as so eloquently stated by Phish, that this is a free country so "screw you cause you live there" that sticks in my craw. Many (not all) dipnetters have the notion that these fish belong to them; that they have some God-given right to do whatever they **** well please regardless of the resource, or the community in which their activities take place. Phish pretty much summed-up the attitude that makes most of us down here want to shut this thing down. I've been here my whole life. I really don't want to move. What I want is for people to actually come together to try to make this thing sustainable. As it is, it can't last. The footprint is too large and sloppy.

    I wish I had a definitive answer for you on how to fix it, but the basics you list would be a helluva start. If the local law enforcement won't do it, how about organizing some kind of "neighborhood watch" community with other dipnetters to help police the areas and encourage people to respect the land. I know this is a cheesy idea but who knows?


    Gunner's right, I'll never forget the guys in a bear bait class I took many years ago. "Just how far does a brown bear have to be from your bait stand before it's legal?" I was amazed someone would ask that question. What happened to ethics and honesty and taking care of the land and fish and game?

    I'm sorry I hijacked your thread with more negativity, but I'm disappointed in the removal of the cabin. Every time something like this is moved, it chips away at what made this state great.

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    Question fixing whats broke in dipnetting

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottsum View Post
    ...the attitude that makes most of us down here want to shut this thing down. I've been here my whole life. I really don't want to move. What I want is for people to actually come together to try to make this thing sustainable. As it is, it can't last. The footprint is too large and sloppy.

    I wish I had a definitive answer for you on how to fix it, but the basics you list would be a helluva start. If the local law enforcement won't do it, how about organizing some kind of "neighborhood watch"
    Thanks for hearing me as clearly as I heard you. I share your wish to make this thing sustainable, and also your worries that in its present form, that is not assured.

    I hesitate at (me) participating in that neighborhood watch - I'm not much on confrontation, except with words, and that effort stands a decent chance of going beyond that. That said, lets keep talking and working to solve. Heck I'm pretty good with a computer; I could design and print up a few hundred cheesy "tickets" with check off boxes indicating different stupidities/rudities if someone else wants to be the beach cop.

    One last thing; it isn't all roses for the dipnetters themselves (ourselves) either. This past year on the Kenai a party with two trucks parked on both sides of my tent on an angle, so between me and the water their two tailgates were only 5 feet apart. Yes, it was crowded. So crowded that my ATV got "landlocked" (couldn't move, due to its access out to portajohn and beyond was blocked by newly parked vehicles) for about 12 hours. And my tent poles (not stakes, I mean poles) got run over twice by ATVs, while they were IN my tent which was erected on the beach with all my stuff inside.

    On the bright side, I enjoyed the large church group that solicited everyone for miles up and down the beach personally; they left all a flyer indicating free hot dogs and (soft) drinks, and had tons of same for all. Their volunteers traveled from everywhere to come to the Kenai to do that. Is there a way we could somehow work with them to help improve the overall situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottsum View Post

    that this is a free country so "screw you cause you live there" that sticks in my craw.

    I haven't dipnetted. As a matter of fact, I cleaned up the mess that I saw while at the Kasilof so feel free to make me the enemy. Your animosity is a burden that I can carry without complaint. Actually, I hope you continue to shoot off your ill-informed opinions. It will only weaken your case and increase your opposition's resolve.

    I avoid Kenai dipnetting. The chaos is more than I care to partake in.

    As for the sales tax issue in Anchorage, I'm making every case for a sales tax that I can.



    "I'm Lost?"-scottsum

    We've already covered that a couple of times, haven't we?

    Best of luck to you Scottsum.
    Last edited by Brian M; 08-26-2009 at 17:55.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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