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Thread: AHTNA Hunt- I chose to participate

  1. #1
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    Default AHTNA Hunt- I chose to participate

    After following the back and forth AHTNA posts (one of "negative" posts was mine) I decided to post my experience to date.

    When I first heard of the hunt I was skeptical. I didn't know really how I felt about BEING REQUIRED to share 1/2 of a bou I had to work for. However, upon further consideration: I chose to submit my application to the hunt.
    1) this is a very easy access hunt. As a first time caribou hunter and a work and family schedule that does not permit much time for planning, transporation, and time in the field- the access of the Nelchina herd is a great plus.
    2) The opportunity to participate in a cultural event such as the community sharing is one i can't pass up.
    3) If I'm lucky, even half of a caribou will be great.
    4) to gain such easy access to a hunt, I must be willing to compromise

    I chose to submit my application and was pulled and received a harvest record for this hunt. I went out last weekend and saw over 100 head of caribou. Unfortunately, none of them stood out as a bull so I could not, with 100% certainty, pull the trigger- the brush was too high in places and I couldn't get close enough to detemine the sex without spooking them. I plan to return to the field this weekend and am optimistic.

    Following this optimism, I will be at Copper Center on 10/3 at 10am sharp (though having to drive from Anchorage that morning) for the Sharing Event. I expect a positive experience- one I will share with my children.

    Management of resources, land, game, etc. and the ensueing regulations highlights the vast number of competing interests- economic, social, cultural, geographic, etc.. We need to spend some time trying to bridge the gap and not just fence off our respective sides. I believe, if successful, the AHTNA hunt may be a step in the right direction.

    I anticipate some grumbled responses to this. Yes, i am a bleeding-heart-liberal and proud of it. I also believe in the right to bear arms. I look forward to many long seasons of hunting and fishing and opportunities to share the fruits of my luck and labor with those less fortunate than I.

    Happy and safe hunting to all.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    As a person from the far right I say congrats on a good time and a chance to share something much more than meat. Alaska was a state where folks learned to share or not make it the second year. Its a place where you help someone you really don't care for when they need it because its the right thing to do and may be you the next time. I have given away lots of food in the winter to folks that needed a few meals.I recived alot of food from folks when I didn't need it but sure enjoyed someone elses smoked salmon or moose meat I wouldn't of had.

  3. #3
    Member B-radford's Avatar
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    Hope you get a caribou, i was trying to get my little sister to put in an application too because she is a school teacher and couldnt go caribou hunting with my dad and me (40 mile herd), but she never put one in.

  4. #4
    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Well, each of us has to make our own chioces. I, for one, would never dream of shopping at a grocery store, no matter how convenient, that required me to give half of what I bought to the bag boy on the way out. Especially if it meant that, even if I didn't find what I was shopping for, I could no longer shop at any other stores.

    And I can't believe that anybody thinks it's appropriate that the government (even a local community government) has the audacity to mandate such obviously unconstitutional rules.

    I do respect that you have the right to choose to participate in this program. However, I sincerely hope that your choices now don't take away my choices later.

    Ok. I'll step down from the soapbox now.
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

  5. #5
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    Default Grocery Store Analogy

    I wouldn't agree with your grocery store analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod in Wasilla View Post
    I, for one, would never dream of shopping at a grocery store, no matter how convenient, that required me to give half of what I bought to the bag boy on the way out. Especially if it meant that, even if I didn't find what I was shopping for, I could no longer shop at any other stores.
    For the sake of argument let's flesh out the hunt as the grocery store. Like you, I would also chose another grocery store if I was faced with the conditions you detail. However, your argument only works if you have multiple grocery stores in the same area. With Alaska game units you don't.
    What we have:
    Store 1: you can only access via plane
    Store 2: you access via a 40 mile atv ride
    Store 3: you pack out your groceries with 4 seperate 11 miles hikes
    Store 4: you can drive right up to the grocery aisle.

    All stores require an invitation (permit) so only a select few can shop there in the first place.
    Stores 1-3 offer great experiences but at a greater time and financial expense.
    Store 4 is very convenient with a smaller outlay of time and money, but you are limited to only shopping at this store for the duration of your shopping season and you must share 1/2 of your groceries with the community.

    This is where the grocery store analogy falls apart. Because, none of us would chose ANY OF THE above STORES for a weekly trip for groceries.

    We all draw the line somewhere. I for one will never opt for a hunt that can only be accessed by plane. (not unless my neighbor down the street decides to be generous with his plane ). Given the right timing I would opt for a long ATV trip and an arduous hike. And, I'm willing to share my harvest in exchange for an easy access hunt.

    I would never advocate for a system that mandates one's choice of "grocery stores". But that is not what we're looking at. We've grown somewhat accustomed to the hunt by invitation (permit only) and accustomed to the choice between fly-in, ATV, or hard hike. Now, we have another choice: share your harvest and partake in a cultural event.

    We each decide the compromises we're willing to make and celebrate each other's success as a result of those choices. And ultimately, we support each other's right to have a choice.


    I'm afraid that when you got down off the soap box, you forget to put it away. So, I'm going to dismount the box now and in the spirt of discussion, leave it for the next guy to step up.

  6. #6
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    Default why does anyone care...

    'bout what Ahtna does with their own private property? Now if this were the State of AK, or the Feds saying that this needs to be done on all State & Federal lands that are huntable (quadrillions of acres of hunting land compared to the tiny speck of sand that is Ahtna's caribou hunting lands) then I could see the beef...other than that. Let Ahtna's do what Ahtna's do...

  7. #7
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    Me and the wife give away about 1/2 our meats, but nobody mandates that, its just what we do with our neigbors, relatives and to keep up trade. People give us fish, birds, berries,whale, seal oil in reciprocation.
    I'm glad you have tradional Alaskan value and enjoy the fact that you are trying to provide for more than your self.....its virtuous and respectable.
    Tonight I got here , (still not home,but getting there,) from a week alone camping and put off getting Caribou untill I was returning. I dont need the meat , but I want the hides, and with no wife,(she went home, kids started school) it was easy to find folks who wanted some fresh meat, so I gave it all away.
    I often see trophy hunters up this way give away whole carcass'es, and as long as the meats been taken care of, more than one person benifits and everyones happy.

    Thats not a bad deal when hunting on private property. It happens other places too....Saw that in Montana when I lived there a couple years on ranches, and 1/2 a Muley was cheaper than a couple hundred $$.......Lots find it easier to say "no"

    Rock on !!
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  8. #8
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie View Post
    'bout what Ahtna does with their own private property? Now if this were the State of AK, or the Feds saying that this needs to be done on all State & Federal lands that are huntable (quadrillions of acres of hunting land compared to the tiny speck of sand that is Ahtna's caribou hunting lands) then I could see the beef...other than that. Let Ahtna's do what Ahtna's do...
    This is not about hunting on AHTNA land. It is about the state giving AHTNA 300 untit 13 permits to hunt on state land, which are then being handed over to other hunters to fulfill the court mandated "sharing" requirement.

  9. #9
    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    I'll try to stay off the soapbox. I understand both your choice and your decision.

    Still, I stand by the statements I made in my earlier post. Regarding the grocery store scenario, it was intended to be an analogy, not a direct comparison. Sure, it's not a perfect analogy, but not many are.

    As for me, I will continue to harvest caribou the way I have for the past couple of years; without the use of an airplane, and without having to pack it out 11 miles on my back (I'm not sure I could even do that any more...). Yeah, I own a four wheeler. But if I didn't, I could borrow or even rent one.

    Besides, if you're looking for an inexpensive, easy way to fill your freezer, you could always buy a side of beef from one of the local meat markets. Surely that's more cost effective and more convenient than just about any hunt out there.

    All that being said... good luck with your harvest.
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

  10. #10
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default the 300...

    What bugs me most about the 300 allocated permits is that the AHTNA corporation had the opportunity to lock up a large block of land that they could manage completely for their own use, allowing no trespass of other hunters. Instead, they chose long corridors along common access points to huge tracts of state land that effectively blocked non corporation hunters from accessing the common land, and that were too narrow to manage the game within effectively. I am glad that the game taken with these permits at least must be shared with non shareholders, even as broken as this solution seems.

    I had my own community sharing event Monday. My brother-in-law and sister brought their family over to help butcher out my moose- I kept about a quarter, gave them half, and spread the other quarter out with a few other friends. Unca Sam had nuttin' to say 'bout how I shared the wealth- and that is a beautiful thing.

  11. #11

    Thumbs down

    This hunt will have far reaching consequences that most of us have never even thought of. It absolutely sets the stage for ALL future hunts to be allocated in ways we never dreamed of. Your kids and grandkids will end up with the result. If you are OKYDOKY with that, then trudge on. They really don't have much opportunity to start with and this takes them down another notch on the Totem Pole. No wonder they immerse themselves in a one man band game of video and watch movies for entertainment, it doesn't take involvement with others, who just want to take advantage of them. Can't blame them for being so mixed up, as this is a point history, where they will NEVER enjoy the opportunities their parents got to. IT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN. I think this will without a doubt lead to younger urban hunters being further disenfranchised and most will have a bad taste for it and choose to not hunt at all, because of the way it places them as a SECOND CLASS CITZEN. Who really wants to play second fiddle? ONLY A LIBERAL!!!

    That said:

    I wish all the nubies and younger hunters that chose this path good luck in killing a caribou. There is no better use for them, than on an Alaskan's Dinner Plate.

    To the older, more experienced hunters that chose this path, well.....you have earned my disrespect as a fellow hunter.
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    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod in Wasilla View Post
    Still, I stand by the statements I made in my earlier post. Regarding the grocery store scenario, it was intended to be an analogy, not a direct comparison. Sure, it's not a perfect analogy, but not many are.

    Hey Rod,

    I liked your groery store scenario! Makes a lot of sense!!!!

    I wonder how much the store is getting for that Ted Turner Buffalo steaks these days......

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    THe one commetn Rod makes that is being over looked and strikes home with me...

    I do respect that you have the right to choose to participate in this program. However, I sincerely hope that your choices now don't take away my choices later.

    agreed i hope this new way of state business does not affect ho my kids and i subsist...
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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    'bout what Ahtna does with their own private property?
    NOBODY in this state should have the ability to dictate fish and game laws on their private property. The fish and game in this state, by constitutional definition, belong to all residents of the state.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    NOBODY in this state should have the ability to dictate fish and game laws on their private property. The fish and game in this state, by constitutional definition, belong to all residents of the state.

    ( need chest thumpin tarzan icon) EXCEPT ON MY LAND DOUG!!!!!
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Well folks this is the price we pay for the pipeline and economic growth and lack of tax in this state.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  17. #17
    Member akjw7's Avatar
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    got to agree with my pal rod - well said

  18. #18
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    ( need chest thumpin tarzan icon) EXCEPT ON MY LAND DOUG!!!!!
    Hey, I respect their right to keep people from hunting their land.. However, I do not think anybody should be able to hunt their private land willy nilly without regard to state law.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

  19. #19
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Edit to my post above...

    However, I do not think anybody should be able to hunt their private land willy nilly without regard to state law.
    Which BTW I don't see Ahtna doing and I sure don't want it to go that way.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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