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Thread: AR 15. Is one better? Are they all similar?

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    Default AR 15. Is one better? Are they all similar?

    I'm planning to get an AR 15. Figure it will be fun to shoot at the range, good for varmints/predators, and have always wanted one. I've talked to a few people and they say that basically all of the ARs are the same. DPMS, Olympic, Stag, Bushmaster, Colt, etc. are all basically the same and use a lot of the same parts. How much truth is there to the rifles being the same? My plan is to get a stock AR and then later get another upper in a 25 WSSM or 243 WSSM. Should I get an AR from a local gun shop or get one from a custom shop? I've heard the custom shop rifles have quite a bit better accuracy. Lots of questions huh.

    What do you guys think?

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    Member jay51's Avatar
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    They are all similar, but there are some differences in the components. I've got an Armalite AR-10 in .308 and I love it. If I was going to buy an AR in 5.56/.223 I would take a hard look at the ARs that have piston-driven uppers vs the traditional gas-operated system. The piston design is a lot easier to keep clean and more resistant to fouling. Sig, Bushmaster, Talon, Robinson Arm. all make piston-kits or guns with them, and there are others. I like the Sig 556, just me.
    -J

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Don't forget the new Ruger AR, it may be the best value in a complete gun right now and itís even gas piston.
    Andy
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    In AR 15s there is only one production gun that stands out...

    Colt..

    All the rest are just fighting for second place.

    For Piston ARs I would rate them as follows:

    1.LWRC

    2. All the rest

    For Piston .223s that arent ARS you cant go wrong with the Robarms or SIGs

  5. #5
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    They are all very similar but I don't think the are the same.

    I much prefer tha Armalite and LWRC guns to any other off the shelf guns. You mentioned a 243 upper, that would take an AR-10 (Armalite) to be topped with a 243, not sure about the WSSM. The Armalite AR-10 can be bought in 308, 7-08, 260 or 243. I also have an upper in 300 RSAUM for my AR-10. I am not now nor have I ever been a fan of the 5.56 (223) and don't think it is worth hauling around but the AR-10 family of cartridges is a very useful group.

    I bought my ten year old grandson an Armalite M-15 A4, 16" with six position stock, full flat top with flip down sights and an Aimpoint. He thinks it is great and it does work well for him. Grandad shot several 1" groups with the sights and then with the 4 minute red dot while sighting it in for him so it must shoot ok.

    The piston driven system is a very good idea. The LWRC system uses all the same receiver parts as the direct gas impingement system, except for the key and bolt then just adds the piston and push rod out under the hand guard. So the commonality of retro fit parts will work with minimal effort/expense. The SiG is more specialty but a very good system and a fine gun as the name would tell you. The AR family of guns are loads of fun and everybody should have a few of them. You might also want to buy a Dillon 650 to load lots of ammo. With the psiton system, no gas gets into the receiver and keeps it clean and cool, both a good thing if you shoot a lot of rounds in a short time. It is also said to reduce heat related failure of internal parts and of course the gas rings are not a problem anymore. I do like my LWRC M6 6.8, it is sweet.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  6. #6

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    Thanks for the info. The WSSM rounds will work out of an AR-15. I was originally leaning towards an AR-10 in 243, but figured I can shoot more and cheaper with an AR-15 in 223 and then get a 25 WSSM or 243 WSSM upper for longer range work or bigger animals. I'll have to look into the LWRC.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    The toughest thing about AR-15's is choosing one, as there are so many options. I had an armalite and for the $ it was a good gun. I ended up selling it because, 16" barrels with muzzle brakes have too much muzzle blast, and I wanted better accuracy than your generic chrome lined carbine barrel provides. But I did get a chance to learn the AR-15 platform, and I have an RRA lower waiting for me to build an upper that will best fit what I want out of an AR-15.

    It seems the AR-15 craze is starting to die down, so prices are getting back to reality, and you can find parts in stock. I'd suggest getting a complete lower with a good 2 stage trigger, and have a custom shop build you an upper with a 20" match grade barrel with a free float hand guard.

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    Are there any LWRC dealers in AK? Their website isn't showing any.

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    How many LWRCs do you want?

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    If you have a LWRC 18" REPR I would be VERY interested!

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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Default I'm pretty sure Alaska Tactical in Muldoon has an LWRC..

    They did last week anyway. Also, Wild West will make you a .243 on a standard AR lower, and if you want accurate, you'll go a long ways further to find better... if its even possible.

    I'm not so sold on the 18 and 20" barrels being necessary for a really accurate AR, I have a few 16" ones that "even I" can shoot 3/4" groups with at 100 yds. They are very accurate, easy and fun to shoot, and a great way to get the family involved in shooting sports. If you do it right (IE Wild West varmit build or MSTN lightweight Noveske versions) you can have an extremely accurate and lightweight wolf gun.

    The LWRC is a nice enough piston gun, if you do some research you'll see the POF's have been exhibiting some issues from time to time, so the claims about not needing lubrication etc may be a bit of an overstatement. In fact, if you do some more thorough internet research, you'll find many of the guys conducting the carbine training courses (Steve at Ak Tactical for example) havent seen a great track record with the piston guns holding up well under extensive use levels, seems kind of funny when you read all the rhetoric from the manufacturers and affectionados about increased reliability due to cooler operating temps, less lube and cleaning required etc..

    After seeing the wear on my POF receiver, I'm inclined to agree with the course instructors I've been able to locate via the web and so on, who've been saying that the direct impingment guns are more reliable even if they need some more cleaning along the way, though I may give the gas piston thing one more try with either that new Ruger, or a custom MSTN.

    Meanwhile, I still need one of them WWG .243 myself!

  12. #12

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    I tend to agree with you on the lube issue. Think it is hype to some extent. Have you shot the POF-308? What are the wear issues you have been having? A16" barrel is fine with me. Want the 7.62x51. Bigger is better for me.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    There is no accuracy benefit of longer barrels, but I simply can't stand the muzzle blast of a 16" 223. If you shoot from a covered shooting bench, I highly recomend going with a longer barrel.

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    Anothe option is the Robinson Arms XCR...you can get 6.8 and 7.62x39 conversion kits (which I may add I just snagged) for their XCR and those rifles are built like tanks

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    I have heard some negative reports about POF, mine is awsome (5.56). I recieved it with a bad barrel (chips in the chrome lining). The thing was shooting every where. Made a phone call, sent the upper back and had a new one in my hands in 1.5 weeks (complete upper). Shoots 3/4" - at 100 yards with an 18" barrel (with good ammo). It has never failed to fire and has only one fail to eject (tore the rim off the case). I'm very impressed with their custmer service and will purchase another one in 7.62x51.
    LWRC makes a great product as well, no experience with them though.
    My buddys Bushmaster is flawless (DI gun), we finally got it to puke only after getting it so hot you almost couldn't hold it, not adding more oil, and tossing it in the dirt and kicking sand and gravel on it. Even then we managed to get 2 30 rnd mags out of her before it said no more. A qwick cleaning and we were back in business.
    Personaly I like the piston set up, but for the price it's not nessesary, a good weapon can be had for a lot less. It kindof depends on how much you shoot and if your a doo dad with bells and whistles kind of guy, like me . And I don't care what they say, AR's need lube, mine are so wet they seep.

    The Robinson XCR is an awsome AK.
    Last edited by 2dawgs; 08-19-2009 at 13:15. Reason: spelling

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    In Anchorage you can purchase LWRC from Alaska Tactical, and in Fairbanks you can purchase them at Pro-Tec. My brother owns an LWRC M6A2 chambered in 6.8spc. It came with a factory defect, and it took LWRC almost 4 months to fix the issue. This is not acceptable to me for a gun that is over $2,000. Once the issue was solved it ran well though.

    I personally love my Colt Model 6920. It is a law enforcement model that is available to the public, and I've fired 1200 rounds through it without doing anything but pulling the bolt out and spraying it down with CLP. It has never failed once in that 1200 rounds. I will gladly trust my life to it. I wouldn't normally treat a rifle this way, but I want to test it out so I can trust it if I ever need it.

    I also own a DPMS, and I've had RRA's before. They are both good, and less expensive. I still would rather have my Colt in the event I was using it for what they are designed to do.

    If you go the large caliber route take a good look at the DPMS style .308/.243 etc. There are a lot of companies that are building with this design now so parts are easy to come by.

    Happy shopping. I think every American should own an AR. They are more then a rifle they are also a symbol of freedom.



    JP

  17. #17

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    I have talked to both stores & they say it is a 20-25 week wait for the LWRC .308. That is a long time!!!! I considered the DPMS. Good platform but want a short stroke gas piston to play with. I agree with you, Colt makes good stuff.

    Is your brother happy with the performance of the 6.8 round?

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    He has mostly plinked with it, and hasn't spent very much time seriously seeing what it was capable of. The one thing that I think is a negative about it is how difficult it is to locate the ammunition. Of course you can reload for it, but it is still somewhat difficult to locate the components. I like the .308 because you can get anything from cheap surplus ammo to very good factory match ammo, and it is available locally. It is also easier to find reloading components for the .308. I have 4,000 rounds for my AR, and enough components to load another couple thousand. This would be very difficult with the 6.8, or at least a lot more expensive.

    The last time I was at Pro-Tec I think he had a 6.8 on the shelf. My brother has been considering selling his because he wants to build a precision bolt gun, and he already has a standard AR.


    JP

  19. #19

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    Yea, he had the 6.8 on the shelf. Felt good in my hands, but want the .308 for the reasons you mentioned. Good people at Pro-Tec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akursus View Post
    I have talked to both stores & they say it is a 20-25 week wait for the LWRC .308.


    Yeah OK

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