Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34

Thread: new rifle scattering shots

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    172

    Default new rifle scattering shots

    I'll get right down to it. I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in .338 WinMag. Had a professional mount and boresight the scope, a Nikon Buckmaster. I used Leupold dual dove tail mounts/bases. I was shooting/sighting in this weekend. It was holding 3/4 moa. I shot 40 rounds. At about 33 rounds it started shooting about 12 inches low and six inches right. Then it went down hill...still on the paper, but North East South and West....I was shooting off a led sled, I am not a new shooter, and I am not recoil sensitive....any thoughts? Could it just be from shooting quite a few rounds and heating the gun up? I shot 40 shots in about 2 hours. I'm pretty frustrated....any help would be awesome! Thanks a ton.

  2. #2

    Default

    Don't take offense...but how many times did you clean the rifle during that session and how did you do it?

  3. #3
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Sounds like something got loose on you. Check your stock attachment bolts, look for cracks in the stock too. Also give the scope rings and bases a good look.

    It may be as easy as a thorough cleaning. Perhaps your barrel copper fouled from all the shooting?

  4. #4
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    Something is wrong with either the scope and/or scope mounts loosened up.

    I've never seen fouling cause accuracy to go off the map like that with a modern rifle, and that includes some fairly rough barrels. Even after 100 rounds at most I'd expect groups to slightly open up.

    Swap out the scope with a known good scope. There is no reason to pay a gunsmith to bore sight a scope. Place the rifle on sandbags, remove the bolt and line up the bullseye with the rifles bore. Then adjust the reticle to the center of the bull. With practice you can get on paper at 100 yds with this method, though I recomend doing it at 50 yds. Fire a few shots, then correct to line up POI and move out to 100 yds.

  5. #5

    Default Better Scope

    My first thought is that the scope got hammered by the heavy recoil. I had a similar deal on a 7mm-08. I bought the gun for my son to start shooting and spent more on the gun than I wanted to so I cheaped out on the scope. It lasted about two 10 round shooting sessions and then started doing the same thing. I thought that it was the boy being recoil shy, so I shot it and it did the same thing.

    I have Nikon scopes on a couple of my guns, but not the buckmaster. That is, I believe, one of their lowest quality scopes. I am not sure what the testing is on it. But the Monarch that I have, it said that it was tested the equivalent of 1000 rnds on a 375 H&H. I dont think that the price of the Buckmaster warrents that type of testing.

    Not real sure, but I would certainly check that.

    Jdub

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    My first guess is that the front scope ring or base is loose. Most likely base screws. When the rear mount loosens the gun shoots a foot high. Think about where the scope goes when one end is loose. You point the scope at the target but the barrel is not pointed in the same place anymore with one end of the scope up a bit. There is virtually no recoil associated with a 338 Winny but I wonder why the lead sled if it don't bother you. Just razzing you. But I will, once again take this opportunity to condemn the lead sled because of the extra punishment it dishes out to the rifle/mounts/scope combo.

    Before shooting any new rifle one should thoroughly clean all factory applied oil and grease from the bore and then clean after each shot at least for ten rounds or so. Then as with any gun don't over heat the barrel. If you cannot hold it tight for 3 seconds it's too hot. When you say professionally mounted scope that just means you paid someone to mount it. We want to feel as if we got our moneys' worth but we don't always. I've remounted many scopes just so mounted, finding all sorts of ailments from screws missing to the scope mounted in reverse. So don't eliminate a poor mounting job as a possible cause. Also screws sometimes break. Scopes rarely ever break anymore but it can happen. I've seen a lot of scope ring screws overtightened and broken on one side and this will cause what your gun is doing. Loose front=shoot low, loose rear=shoot high. Give it a good look see and get out that little torx wrench and check everything. You want 20 inch pounds. Speaking of which I have a nice Wheeler engineering torque wrench for sale for only $20.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  7. #7
    Member OKElkHunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    449

    Default Yep

    Somethings loose. Scope mount, recoil lug bolt, action/trigger bolts, or cross hairs in scope. 338 has a pretty good recoil which takes a good durable scope. Check all screws and mounts, use blue loc-tite on all threads. make sure you don't ahve dirt or grit between barrel and fore-end. Good luck.
    ďDon't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." ~Calvin Coolidge~

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Speaking of which I have a nice Wheeler engineering torque wrench for sale for only $20.
    Wow Murphy, I just bought one of those from Midway. Wish I woulda know sooner.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    FLORIDA
    Posts
    75

    Default scope mounts are loose I bet

    I have seen this happen ! I would fire a few shots to heat the barrel up then retighten the mount screws ! I had this happen on a handgun before ! Retightened the screws with the barrel warm and they stay tight ! Kevin
    Little bullets might expand ! But big bullets never shrink !
    When you swim with big fish try not to act like bait !

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    Since some of us are thinking your gun was shot as though it was belt fed, and you probably have a synthetic stock with an aluminum bedding stabilizer in the stock with aluminum pillers, it is possible that the stock torqued significantly. When a barrel heats up shots generally go up with temperature. Some synthetic stocks with those aluminum rails that contact the receiver will draw heat from the steel (the thermal transfer of aluminum is much higher than steel) and pull the forend away (usually) from the barrel. If it was in contact and after heat up, it isn't, that could make a big POI change. You should notice that however. Probably your rifle barrel is floated and this would have little or no effect and it would be back to normal (more or less) when it cooled. Just some thoughts. I do have the equipment, just rarely start it up.

    I do like the Leupold dual dovetail mounts. They are strong and reliable but of course must be solidly mounted. Let us know how this works out.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    172

    Default THanks.

    A lot of good information and thoughts to try out. I'll give 'er hell this weekend and see what I can come up with. Thanks a ton guys. Hope to see you all in the woods this year. Thanks.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    257

    Default What Murphy said +

    +1 more for spend some money on a better scope. Not in the habit of bashing other's equipment..... (other than the lead sled.... put it on ebay!)

    Those that know me, know I am opinionated (just a little)

    I've run way more rounds through my 338 that I'll ever admit to again. but will admit to 50 rounds a week every week for 10 years when powder was way less expensive that now.

    Up until 5 years ago I had the same mounts, rings and scope on the gun for all of it. Leupold/leupold/leupold. 5 years ago I switched to the leupold QR's. The good one's with the small levers that you can't get to loosen up without padded pliers.... A straight 6x42 M8 was permanently attached to the rifle until I fell/slid/landed on it last sheep season. 300 ft "slide" ending with it hitting a rock, my head hitting the scope then the pack hitting me in the head and my head hitting the scope and the scope hitting the rock again.

    It didn't shoot well after that. Sent to Leupold, fixed no questions asked. Couldn't find another straight 6x in town anywhere. Or a VXIII 3.5-10x40 so I'm now having to get used to a 4.5-14x40 VXIII sitting on her. Not complaining one bit (yet). Just a touch heavier, but it's in the sweet spot that makes her balance better.

    Honestly, it's too much scope for the rifle, but I was mid season and had to have something and it was the closest I could find to what I wanted.

    Put a straight 4 or 6x or the fairly new 2.5-8VX-III would be perfect! Wasn't any of those in town either when I needed one. 3x9x40 VXIII would be the upper limit of where a guy really needs to go.

    Please stay away from a larger objective than 40mm. I run medium rings, but could possibly get away with low ones. The closer you keep the glass to the action/barrel, the less force is placed on it. Less force = less punishment = longer life.

    Lead sled = incredible punishment to your equipment --- buy a $25 PAST pad for lead development from the bench and lose the sled. I hear they make good boat anchors.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    172

    Default Alright

    So maybe the scope would be better suited to my 6.5 swedish? I talked to quite a few people (who were not in the business of getting my money) and they all (almost) suggested the Nikon due to durability and value. I still have the box and receipt, maybe I can swap....hmmm...thanks for the input.

  14. #14
    Member BAR300's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    319

    Default yup ditch the scope

    Nikon makes good scopes, had a few, my monarch is top notch and can handle a 338's recoil, the buckmaster or lesser Nikons are not up to the task. the rifle is obviously awesome, it's a weatherby, I have one myself in 338 stainless and it shoots under an inch at 100yrds. once you adjust the trigger on them they are not too bad. keep the rifle, ditch the scope. for the price you paid for it a Burris fullfield would have been a better choice, or a bushnell 3200 either of those are about the same price and are way better glass.

  15. #15

    Default

    Funny reading this. The same thing happened to me last night with my 338. My gun went from shooting 1" groups to hitting the top of the target, then hitting the dirt 30' in front of the target. I would adjust the scope and the bullet would hit wherever it wanted. I'm planning to get a new scope next week and give it a try.

  16. #16

    Default

    [QUOTE]
    [QUOTE=rdklinak;552311I've run way more rounds through my 338 that I'll ever admit to again. but will admit to 50 rounds a week every week for 10 years when powder was way less expensive that now.
    [/QUOTE]

    OK, so when I do the math (Ilike doing the math ) That adds up to 26000 rounds. and how many rebarrels have you heave? 10 maybe?

    Please stay away from a larger objective than 40mm. I run medium rings, but could possibly get away with low ones.
    I have a 50mm Nightforce mounted on my Sako (soon to be mounted on my Sendero) and it uses the low rings (.85") A 40 mm objective should be fine, but a 50 in a 30mm tube will let a whole lot more light in.

    I agree, there are (IMO) better ways to deal with recoil other than a lead sled. I use a slip on recoil pad. For me it works a whole lot better than the PAST shoulder pad.

    -MR

  17. #17
    Member theultrarider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Soldotna
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    I have a luepold vxIII 2.5-8 on a ruger m77 300 mag. I bought this gun new in 1983. It always shot 1" groups or better at 100yrds until a caribou trip about 5 years ago. I emptied my gun on a bou at 40 yrds and it walked away!!! I finally grabbed my wifes gun from her after she had dropped her bou, and then chased after mine and finally got it. We got home and went to the range and it was all over the place. Swapped scopes and it was solid again. I sent my 20 year old leupold back to them and within a week I had a brand new in my hands. Shoots good as new. leupold does actually stand behind their products. Hopefully you issue is as simple as a scope gone bad.

  18. #18
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    OK, so when I do the math (Ilike doing the math ) That adds up to 26000 rounds. and how many rebarrels have you heave? 10 maybe?-MR
    OK MR, this time I am wondering about your math.

    10 rounds a week for 10 years
    52 weeks in a year*10 years= 520 weeks in ten years
    520 weeks*10 rounds per week= 5200 rounds
    10*52*10=5200



    Where the heck did you get 26,000 rounds.
    I even did it 5 times to be sure my fat sausages didnít hit extra keys.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    OK MR, this time I am wondering about your math.

    10 rounds a week for 10 years
    52 weeks in a year*10 years= 520 weeks in ten years
    520 weeks*10 rounds per week= 5200 rounds
    10*52*10=5200



    Where the heck did you get 26,000 rounds.
    I even did it 5 times to be sure my fat sausages didnít hit extra keys.
    rdklinak said he shot 50rds/wk.every week for 10 years.

    50*52=2600*10yrs=26000

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    3,048

    Default

    Reread his post.It says 50 rds per week not 10.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •