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Thread: In an emergency, 223 or 44 mag for brownie?

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    Default In an emergency, 223 or 44 mag for brownie?

    A serious question only for experienced bear hunters:
    I am out hunting small game with my .223 rifle and run into an angry brownie who is not bluffing--do I draw my 44 Magnum or shoot him with the 223? Where do I aim with either of these inadequate calibers?
    Please don't:
    1.tell me your opinion if you are not an experienced bear hunter
    2. tell me I am dead either way
    3. tell me I am undergunned either way--as I said, I am not out looking for bear
    4. tell what gun I SHOULD be using--I've got what I've got.
    5. tell me to climb a tree or play dead.
    Please do: give me a serious answer based on your experience shooting bears.
    Thanks for your answer

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    All in all the 44mag will go much firther in stopping a bear than a 223cal.

    There is just not enough mass or energy with the smaller round.

    The 44mag is slower but has a lot of mass and shock on impact.

    That would be what i carry
    Good luck

    Sweepint
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    granted an angry bear is harder to stop ON all account...


    if your being charged.. you don't have time to pull another gun..

    you just wont see it coming unless you are on the tundra and have a clear field of view..


    aim for the head. it is not as thick and hard as folks figure...

    weather it is hand gun or 223... put them in the top of its head has it it running at you. with a smaller cal. your choices are head or neck shots on a good size Griz you just wont get enough penetration to slow down on a body shot./





    you can see on the photo 2 black and one Griz... the griz was guess at about 25 years old.. the cranial ridge in the older bears is what allows the bullets to deflect..so your aiming for the flat spot in front of it..
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Don't have a clue about bears. Racoons are the most dangerous game I've run across but this might be worth looking through..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._North_America

    What's interesting is I couldn't find a case where a bear was shot with anything so much as a .22 and kept up the attack. Probably some cases out there but I couldn't find them. What ever you do, get a lot of practice getting that .44 into action. No place for a front sight hanging up on a holster.

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    http://books.google.com/books?id=ALR...0brown&f=false


    this is an expert from AK bear tales though the Bruce mentioned in it and i do not really get along.. it is a true story... I raised the 3 kids he had with his first wife as she was my second and mother of one of my girls....the hand guns saved his life because it was on him when he was ambushed by the bear... his buddy ran like a girl and left him to die...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    One thing about it you hit him in the head and its gonna give him pause and let you regroup for another shot if you can still hold on to the gun

    On another note my dad while he was living in the hills had to dispose of 2 grizzs and 1 black, and with each of them 1 shot from the 44 was all it took. Shots were in the head under 10 feet.

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    #2 to what Vince said.

    If theres a Bear charging you, you use what you have in your hands.

    .223 will do the job, dont be afraid of the small caliber, it will ruin its brain/spine, be afraid of missing.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post


    Vince, that looks like a good griz! Measurement?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    25 3/16 .................
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

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    Booner...way to go!

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    A .223, 55 grn, FMJ will go from bow to stern on a brownie. Plus the fact that you usually have another dozen or so bullets behind it.
    I shoot a .223 quite well and most ARs or minis are quite accurate, a .44, I don't shoot so well. I don't like shooting it and therefore, do not practice with it. I think most, and I said most, people don't shoot a wheel gun very well, let alone one with significant recoil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtm9 View Post
    A .223, 55 grn, FMJ will go from bow to stern on a brownie. Plus the fact that you usually have another dozen or so bullets behind it.
    I shoot a .223 quite well and most ARs or minis are quite accurate, a .44, I don't shoot so well. I don't like shooting it and therefore, do not practice with it. I think most, and I said most, people don't shoot a wheel gun very well, let alone one with significant recoil.
    The 55grn bullet was made to break at the canalure and bullet to come apart. That is what makes them such a nasty weapon. The 55grn bullet did a lot more damage than the .62 grn bullet does. The wounds i saw with one were devastating. If that bullet was meant to just penetrate it would make a nice neat little hole like the 62grn bullet does. I would love to see one penetrate end to end on a brown

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    i carry a 44 as a side arm as well and have killed bears at close range that at least seemed to have ill intentions. all i can say is it comes down to muzzle energy and whether or not you actually have the time to pull the ol' 44 out. i'm guessing that if your hunting small game your using full metal jackets and those will probably penetrate better than the 44. in that case it is 100% shot placement. personally i think the 44 would be the most effective in at least turning the bear but it all comes down to how much time you have. the pistol is shooting about a 250 gr heavier load if your shooting 300's and will hit harder. i don't mean to waste your time but from experience it all comes down to a combination of time and whether it is charging or just being aggressive. if just aggressive then rock the 44.

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    Default kgpcr

    A few of the .223s I have owned shot the 62gr bullet quite well but would tumble about 90% of the time. Something to do with what twist the barrel was I would imagine. I have been in the situation where the .223 was what I had with me to take care of a brown bear. I wouldn't prefer it on a charging bear, but it did the trick. At least one shot went through the throat and ended up exiting in front of the right hind quarter, so not quite to the stern, but close.

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    The 223 was built to wound humans. I have seen many humans shot with the 223 and one shot buy the 44mag. I would in all cases use the 44mag.

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    Smile NOT hunting bear

    Carry your small game cal. and enjoy the small game hunt would be my recommendation.

    We all know the .223REM and suchlike were never intended as big or dangerous game cartridges (as you referenced more or less in your original posting)

    If you have concerns with the very unlikely (yet possible) bad news bear encounter or bear not bluffing scenario... standard can of bear pepper spray has been evidenced/proven to deter and counter bear attacks. I say this because I 'know' the non-lethal approach will better fit needs when NOT hunting bear.

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    Default Situational awareness trumps all

    90% of the time. For the other 10%, a weapon in the hand is better than one in a holster.

    case in point: I have no problem bringing a knife to a gun fight as long as I'm inside 21 feet when it starts.

    Just one more opinion to ponder.

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    Ask the guy down south that just had a 9'er charge him from behind,( storys in the ADN)

    It would be interesting to hear from him, and see what he thought.

    The bear was 20 yards away at a full run and he had just enough time to pull out his 454 Cas. and unload 2-3 shots he can't remember and a lucky shot got him just in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post
    Ask the guy down south that just had a 9'er charge him from behind,( storys in the ADN)

    It would be interesting to hear from him, and see what he thought.

    The bear was 20 yards away at a full run and he had just enough time to pull out his 454 Cas. and unload 2-3 shots he can't remember and a lucky shot got him just in time.
    Yeah this story was BS. Won't go into details, but explain to me how someone giving an interview to a reporter can't remember how many shots he fired out of his revolver when opening the cylinder will show exactly how many. (He had opened the cylinder for F&G before any reporters were involved.)

    As far as 223 or 44 magnum, I recommend the 223. I know my AR-15 with a 30 round magazine will dominate a bear if I am pouring 3 shots a second into him. 44 magnum is fine too, but the ability to consistently punish the bear with the semi-auto is FTW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumPenetration View Post
    Yeah this story was BS. Won't go into details, but explain to me how someone giving an interview to a reporter can't remember how many shots he fired out of his revolver when opening the cylinder will show exactly how many. (He had opened the cylinder for F&G before any reporters were involved.)

    As far as 223 or 44 magnum, I recommend the 223. I know my AR-15 with a 30 round magazine will dominate a bear if I am pouring 3 shots a second into him. 44 magnum is fine too, but the ability to consistently punish the bear with the semi-auto is FTW.

    LOL you sound like i think...


    my gut says a bear stepped up on the road and scared the crap outa the guy... so he opend fire... and said it charged him...

    20 feet? doogie would have been lunch before he knew what hit him..


    BUT HEY... thats my personal ... gut opinion...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

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