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Thread: Kenai River % of Harvest by User Group

  1. #1

    Default Kenai River % of Harvest by User Group

    This info was provided in the Dipnetting forum by AKTally and can be found at this post:

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...2&postcount=22

    Here's the chart:

  2. #2
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    The numbers tell a story.
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    Default Tonnage dudes win.... again.

    That should put everything that's been discussed here in the past month into MUCH better perspective.

    Of course it fits perfectly in line with the BOF mandate for a commercial priority in managing this stock.

    For the record, the numbers could still take quite a big swing and still fall within the definition of a commercial "priority"

    Ex. 50 comm: 30 sport: 20 dip.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  4. #4

    Default Here's another view

    In terms of total catch by user group.



    ~tr

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    Default One Picture is worth a thousand words-

    As in the old CHinese proverb - great information!

    Now we need to add the benefits contributed from each user group to really make it stand out.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Those dipnetters are catching way too much.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Default TWB

    60,000 people here in south-central benefit from dipnetting. What is so out of Kilter is that? It comes out to 4.6 fish per person, per year. A person could do that on a weekend by rod and reel.

  8. #8

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    That diagram shows me that commercial fishing is a much more efficient way of catching fish. All those fish caught commercially were made available to the general public who otherwise probably wouldn't have the time, money, desire, or knowledge to go to the river and catch their own fish. What a nice service the commercial fisherman are providing for the rest of the public who would also like to enjoy Alaska salmon.

    Also, for those who would advocate a "fair" allocation, like 50%, 30%, 20%; do you really think 30% of a 4 million fish run could be harvested by sportfishermen? Don't sportfisherman catch 1 fish at a time? Even if sportfisherman could harvest 1.33 million in that short of a period (which they couldn't), why would they need that many fish? That's an insane amount of fish for the amount of people who fish the river. That doesn't seem fair to me.

    I've read comments on this board about how hard it really is for a sportfisher of dipnetter to get their limits. Tvfinak even said this - "Almost every time I go fishing I see the majority of fishermen going back empy handed. It is sadding to see a family fish all day trying to catch a few fish and then go home skunked." If fishing on the river is really like this, where families are going back with little or nothing to show for their work (according to Tvfinak), how would sport fishing possibly harvest 1.33 million fish? Hooks just aren't that efficient.

    The diagram looks completely fair and balanced when you look beyond just the numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    60,000 people here in south-central benefit from dipnetting. What is so out of Kilter is that? It comes out to 4.6 fish per person, per year. A person could do that on a weekend by rod and reel.
    I was being facetious. I help fill 4 permits this year, my freezer is full for the year - My 7th year dipnetting.

    Those dipnet #'s get any higher the commercial fishermen will levy against a permit of some sort, that 11&#37; is income to them.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Just curious about the chart.....wasn't the commercial fishery closed in 1989 due to the Exxon Valdez spill? If so, how did they harvest such a large number of fish?

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    Default Observation on the sucess of sport fishermen

    Nerka confirmed my observations of sport fishermen sucess if you care to check his posts also. If I recall correctly he stated that even on a good day about 50% of the fishermen are unsucessfull due to a variety of reasons other than a lack of fish.

    Do you feel good after seeing a family go home empty handed after a day of fishing - I certainly don't! I especially feel for the kids- I would like to see the younger generation take an interest in the outdoor and catching a fish or two is a good way to get started. I try to help them anyway I can - give them tackle, coaching, encouragement etc. I hope you feel and act the same way.

    I didn't offer any suggestion on allocation or anything else - just my observation and a few feelings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Powderpro View Post

    I've read comments on this board about how hard it really is for a sportfisher of dipnetter to get their limits. Tvfinak even said this - "Almost every time I go fishing I see the majority of fishermen going back empy handed. It is sadding to see a family fish all day trying to catch a few fish and then go home skunked." If fishing on the river is really like this, where families are going back with little or nothing to show for their work (according to Tvfinak), how would sport fishing possibly harvest 1.33 million fish? Hooks just aren't that efficient.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  12. #12

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    Tv- my reason for quoting you was to show that sportfishing isn't an efficient way to catch fish, so I'm agreeing with you and using your observations to prove my point, that's all. I wasn't calling you out as if you had made an error, just the opposite in fact. When I was young, 9 years old, I had to go fishing a few times before I ever caught my first sockeye. So I understand what it's like to go fishing and not get anything. That's part of the excitement of fishing, not knowing exactly what you are going to get. It's unreasonable to think or suggest that people with hooks could harvest 30&#37; of the Kenai sockeye run as fishnphysician suggested.
    Last edited by Powderpro; 08-04-2009 at 11:06. Reason: additions, spelling correction

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    anyone have a similar chart for kings?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powderpro View Post
    Tv- my reason for quoting you was to show that sportfishing isn't an efficient way to catch fish
    Sport fishing isn't supposed to be efficient, it's for sport. If it were purely about catching fish, folks would trade their poles for dipnets. I

    I'm a novice fly fishermen, I catch a few here and there, probably do alot better if I had more experience and better technique, but I do it for te sporting side of it.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  15. #15

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    How about a chart for Silver harvest by users?

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    Just to put that chart into perspective, we had an overescapment and a surplus of sockeye to the Russian this year. The Kasilof also overescaped. The Kenai late run is meeeting target goals nicely. No mid-season sport or pu closures. Liberalized limits and expanded areas were given on the Kasilof. The data shows in the last 30 years over half have been overescapements and surpluses for Kenai sport and pu fishing...These are years when we exceed the top end of the goal range and could not harvest all the fish given to us in-river.

    The commercial fishery harvests more fish because that's what they do...they are authorized and regulated to do that. They have always been a part of this fishery. And they are hugely responsible for the wonderful sockeye fishery we have, including the overescapements and surpluses over more than half of the last 30 years that we can't harvest but is lost yield to them. I am thankful for such a great sport and pu fishery and my hat is off to both managers and commercial fishermen.

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    Default Just an examploe

    Thank you for clarifing your statement.

    In the case of fishnphysician - he was just showing an extreme example - "ex" not a suggestion - of how a 30% priority in sportfishing could still allow a commercial priority. I don't think anyone would ever suggest that sportfishermen could catch 30% of the run - but it would be fun to try to see if we could


    Quote Originally Posted by Powderpro View Post
    Tv- my reason for quoting you was to show that sportfishing isn't an efficient way to catch fish, so I'm agreeing with you and using your observations to prove my point, that's all. I wasn't calling you out as if you had made an error, just the opposite in fact. When I was young, 9 years old, I had to go fishing a few times before I ever caught my first sockeye. So I understand what it's like to go fishing and not get anything. That's part of the excitement of fishing, not knowing exactly what you are going to get. It's unreasonable to think or suggest that people with hooks could harvest 30% of the Kenai sockeye run as fishnphysician suggested.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  18. #18

    Default Equal Opportunity Sport, PU, and Commercial Fishing

    Skill, resources, and chance will always be factors in all forms of fishing. God forbid that we would try to organize equal results for all users based on need or feelings.

    The role of government is not to provide everybody with equal results, but to make sure that the resources are protected so that we all have an equal opportunity to use our ingenuity, time, strength, skill, and money to get what we want out of the fishery.

    The sport fisherman wants to enjoy the sport, the dipper wants to fill the freezer, and the commercial fisherman wants to make a profit in an expensive and dangerous occupation.

    There are plenty of fish for all user groups. There are poor, average, and excellent fishermen in all groups. How well we do at achieving our goals cannot be guaranteed by government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak
    I don't think anyone would ever suggest that sportfishermen could catch 30&#37; of the run - but it would be fun to try to see if we could
    The data shows that on average the sportfishery only takes about 9% of the harvest and the majority of years there is a surplus overescapement that is not harvested in-river by sportfishermen. A 30% priority for sportfishing makes little sense from a management standpoint, and could jeopordize the viability of the commercial fishery.

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    Default Clarification on the Russian

    The Russian River had a good FIRST run only. Also, compared to the second run in the Kenai the first run is small and mainly provides the sport fishermen an early opportunity.

    The second Russian run is still in progress and at the moment isn't doing too well although it had a good start. The second run still has a few weeks to go - we will see how it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    Just to put that chart into perspective, we had an overescapment and a surplus of sockeye to the Russian this year.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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