View Poll Results: Is this wanton waste, committed by either me, or the Post Office?

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  • Yes, USPS is guilty of wanton waste of wildlife.

    10 7.94%
  • Yes, it is wanton waste, but the culprit is the idiot that shipped the fish via USPS Priority Mail.

    36 28.57%
  • No, of course its not wanton waste. Packages get lost some times so just get over it already.

    80 63.49%
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Thread: Is this wanton waste of wildlife?

  1. #1
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    Question Is this wanton waste of wildlife?

    I sent frozen fish via USPS Priority Mail. Multiple people at USPS said it would get there with enough time to be OK. Yesterday I met with my Postmaster, since my package appeared to be both late and lost. He verified that my package never left Anchorage. The fish is surely bad by now. I told the postmaster 25 hours ago that if he did not find and deliver my package within the next 24 hours it would surely be called wanton waste and either he or I should call F&G so they could cite one of us.

    Is this wanton waste, committed by either me, or the Post Office?

  2. #2
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    Default more details

    I hear the numbers so far. OK, that's why I asked the question, so thanks for the honest answers. Here's some more details:

    - I took extremely great care of the fish from the second it was caught to the second I handed it over to usps.
    - I asked multiple people at usps, multiple times, regarding if my fish would be safe, entrusted to their care.
    - I mailed it to a forum member here that had no fish, that wanted it a lot.
    - And I could spare it.
    - Some of it I smoked, some of it was fillets; one of the fillets was a "trophy" fillet, easily 10 inches wide and very very long.
    - I paid usps to do what they said they would do, and instead they either took or lost my fish. It still has never left Anchorage and now it is spoiled.
    - Yes, I'm pretty unhappy about this.
    - We're talking 25 pounds of the finest sockeye salmon there is, guys.

    Like I said, I hear ya when I see the numbers in the poll, but are you telling me you wouldn't be ticked off if it was your fish they took/lost? Lets see a post or two on that, OK?

  3. #3

    Talking

    OK. I will try to be gentle in my response.

    You should slit your wrists, to save us the cost of a the trial.
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  4. #4
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default wanton:

    "without regard for what is right, just, humane, etc.; careless; reckless"

    yep, bummer... but i don't think "wanton waste" comes into play.
    i think that really only come into play as an offense in the field.
    once fish and game has been salvaged and processed you may have "accidental" waste, or "inadvertent" waste, but not wanton, as long as your actions are taken with care.
    i do think emptying last years meat and fish into a dumpster would be wanton waste.
    still, that is too bad, but not likely anything you can do about it.
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  5. #5
    Member Huntress's Avatar
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    Default

    Overnight is the only way to go. Priority mail, clearly states 3-5 business days. Wanton waste as far as F&G is concerned, no, because it's already been "processed". But yea, a waste.
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  6. #6
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Your post says nothing of WHERE you sent the fish. I'm assuming you sent it to the lower 48.
    Your obviously VERY inexperienced with the PO. Pri mail is NOT the way to send perishables. If you had any commen sense (sorry to be blunt) you would have sent it EXPRESS MAIL.
    Hopefully you learn something from this.
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  7. #7
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    Default Thanks for the thoughtful replies

    Huntress, Dave, thanks for the thoughtful replies.

    I don't have any intention of arguing for arguing's sake; I wonder about:

    - You mention Priority Mail says clearly it takes 3-5 days, but don't mention that multiple usps people told me this shipment would take 2 to 3 days. It is between two of the largest Alaskan metropolises, no hinterlands involved. usps clearly told me that they fly to that city every evening and the last post of the day here would make it onto that night's flight.
    - usps wasn't careless?
    - usps wasn't reckless?
    - wanton waste never applies after the meat hits your home freezer?

    P.S. You "know" the recipient here on this forum. Clearly it was his fish not mine; I'd already given it.

    Thanks again for the thoughtful replies.

  8. #8
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Default

    The post office messed up. It's not "wanton waste" but they did ruin your shipment. You insured the package, right? File the claim.

    As for the poll, I don't feel that any of the 3 options really fit.
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  9. #9
    Member Huntress's Avatar
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    Default

    Nope, wanton waste is no longer a factor once it has been processed for human consumption. (short of the legal wording )

    As for 3-5 business days, I deal with all my mail online, and that's what it states when you click on the button that says "Priority" mail. Then again, I have never been one to believe anything anyone tells me that works behind a counter. Express mail, overnight etc....The only way to go when it comes to perishables and even then its a gamble.
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  10. #10
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    Default You're sorta right, but there is more

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntress View Post
    Nope, wanton waste is no longer a factor once it has been processed for human consumption. (short of the legal wording )
    I didn't believe those words so I looked it up as best I can. I'm surprised because its seems your right in what you say here; I'm disappointed there is no simple common sense reg. that says simply that wasting of harvested wildlife should not be done. As I read the rules, it is perfectly legal to take harvested fish home (thus accomplishing your responsibility to "salvage") and throw it into the front yard for the ravens to eat.

    I don't mean to be flip - I'm saying thats the way I read the regs and I'm surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntress View Post
    As for 3-5 business days, I deal with all my mail online, and that's what it states when you click on the button that says "Priority" mail.
    No. I did 'click', being a sorta computerized guy, you're right there. The first time that click told me two days, then the recipient changed to a different address (due to previously experienced delays in that same destination post office building) in the same metropolis and my new click said 3 days (not 3-5), and in person my post office said 2.

    Don't get me wrong - I blame me. There is no doubt I trusted the wrong people. I will learn (albeit slowly, if history is any indication). Have you ever planned a hunt best you can, there in your house, and then the real hunt turned out entirely different in every detail, because you hadn't done that exact hunt before, exactly there, exactly the same time of year, rainage, drainage and more? That's where I am in this deal.

    Back to the regs. While I'm happy that Alaska has fewer laws than any state in the union (my opinion) I'm not happy that they don't make any attempt to prevent actual waste of wildlife once it is "salvaged", with the one notable (below) exception of during further transport/transfer of possession.

    But, my reading of the regs now firmly convicts the usps when it says:
    1) "It is your responsibility to make sure game is legally taken before you accept or transport it."
    They didn't. No check of my license or the F&G Transfer of possession form. But that's irrelevant because it was legal so no harm no foul there.
    2) "If you accept game or parts of game from someone else, either permanently as a gift or temporarily in order to transport that game, it becomes your responsibility to salvage all edible meat for human consumption."
    Isn't it clear that usps did not satisfy that responsibility, which responsibility was clearly theirs by virtue of their acceptance of game meat that was clearly marked in many ways?

    I don't allege that they intended to screw up; I'm do say that clearly they did screw up in a way that (when combined with my screwup in trusting them) did indeed waste 25 pounds of fine salmon, and that said screw up appears (to me) to be illegal & inept on their part, and legal & inept on my part.

    I mean come on, what if you screwed up and accidentally wasted 25 pounds of fine game meat in a way that could and should have been avoided - though many times before you did avoid that problem? That's where usps is on this, right now, i.e., my box of fish has still never left anchorage even now, after 4-5 days now; I track it online via usps.com. Of course it is not the norm for usps priority shipping to sit in its origination city for 5 days. As a previous poster said online regarding that, that delay was likely a reaction to my dutiful/legally-following way of marking the outside of the container according to their rules for shipping dry ice, with DOT Class 9 Miscellaneous Hazardous Materials symbols, because a legal amount (5#) of dry ice was inside.

    Would you really say to the F&G guy writing the ticket "gosh, this never happens... I didn't mean to..."?

  11. #11
    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akres View Post
    ok. I will try to be gentle in my response.

    you should slit your wrists, to save us the cost of a the trial.
    :d:d:d:d:d
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  12. #12
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    I would report this to President Obama. Then the postmaster general and you could have a beer at the whitehouse together and decide who's fault it is.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskanmoosehunter View Post
    I would report this to President Obama. Then the postmaster general and you could have a beer at the whitehouse together and decide who's fault it is.
    Well played sir.
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  14. #14
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    Default absolutely...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsonn View Post
    Well played sir.
    ... though I'm sure we'd all just say that there is room for all of us to improve in the future and that our meeting is the first step that direction... Here, here! Mmmmm, the president's beer tastes a little sweeter...

  15. #15
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    Every time I mail a package the postal clerk at the counter asks if there is anything perishable in the package. Perhaps you were asked that as well? At that point, you might ask, "Which service is guaranteed to deliver within a certain time frame?" As mentioned above, only Express Mail is guaranteed, and up here it's only guaranteed overnight within Alaska. If you want guarantees to the lower 48, FedEx and UPS are about the only options.

    Since this is a learning experience, I'll diverge into a sort-of related topic: Verbal assurances or regulatory interpretations versus written ones. The IRS and the tax courts have long stated that you rely on the IRS publications, such as the instructions for the 1040 form, at your peril. That is because the publications are only guidelines. To ensure compliance with the law, you must read the Internal Revenue Code and the myriad Internal Revenue Regulations. The same holds true for anyone who relies on the word of a Fish and Game enforcement person out in the field or - as in this case - a postal service employee.

    So, if a Fish and Game guy says, "Don't worry, we never cite anyone for that," or a postal clerk says, "Heck, we always get mail to Fairbanks the next day from Anchorage," you might want to read the rules and written guarantees.

    Unfortunate loss in this case. Sorry for you, your friend, and the salmon who died for no purpose. Only two of you get to learn from it, I guess....

  16. #16
    Member Rich_in_AK's Avatar
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    My opinion is that if you are not going to eat the fish you should not be fishing for it in the first place. Someone else that needed that fish could then have caught it. You shouldn't fish just to fill a limit or brag to your friends what a great fisherman you are.

  17. #17
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    Unhappy Some days... this board.... :-(

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_in_AK View Post
    My opinion is that if you are not going to eat the fish you should not be fishing for it in the first place. Someone else that needed that fish could then have caught it. You shouldn't fish just to fill a limit or brag to your friends what a great fisherman you are.
    Thanks Rich; you really told me good...

    We like to eat salmon twice a week here. The salmon I presently have will not support that habit, meaning I don't have enough. But a forum member here had none, so I wanted to spare some of my salmon to him as a thank you for some words of wisdom he sent my way. Let me be clear about this: I did not harvest more than I needed, I didn't brag, I'm not a great fisherman (though I love to fish), and I'm not bawling anyone out in a dumb fashion because I can hide behind my keyboard... (OK, I guess I am making a bit of an insinuation there, but you're welcome to come visit Eagle River and I'll tell you the same thing in person.)

    Now please feel free to visit this thread and tell me like chris did how awful I am for giving a ton of fully-cooked nuke-able lunch thingys to the homeless shelter, to make room for my dipnetted fish in my tiny little freezer.

    Some days this board just kills me.

  18. #18
    Member Rich_in_AK's Avatar
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    Let me see if I have this right: It kills you to read someones elses opinion on this forum? If you "needed the fish" as you say you did why give it away? Probably because you know you can go out and catch more for yourself right?

  19. #19
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_in_AK View Post
    Let me see if I have this right: It kills you to read someones elses opinion on this forum? If you "needed the fish" as you say you did why give it away? Probably because you know you can go out and catch more for yourself right?

    Because rich part of the heritage of hunting and fishing n AK is is sharing your catch. even if that catch is not enough to get you through the winter...


    that i the first lesson i teach my kids when they do well... that they will share or offer to share with the neighbor.

    I honesty feel that is the sole reason for my success over the years as a provider of wild game. I bet you can find more then a few forum memebers who have eaten meat i gave them... even though it shortened the duration of our frozen stock....
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  20. #20
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    Default Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Because rich part of the heritage of hunting and fishing n AK is is sharing your catch. even if that catch is not enough to get you through the winter...


    that i the first lesson i teach my kids when they do well... that they will share or offer to share with the neighbor.

    I honesty feel that is the sole reason for my success over the years as a provider of wild game. I bet you can find more then a few forum memebers who have eaten meat i gave them... even though it shortened the duration of our frozen stock....
    I am with you 100% Vince and FamilyMan.

    I am fortunate to have a job that allows me time to harvest/dipnet my limits of salmon/halibut and when lucky a moose. When I know someone is having their 5th or 6th night of beans and rice because they have a job that won't allow them the time to go dipneting, or moose hunting, or don't have a job at all... I offer them 10 or so lbs of reds/halibut/moose etc.

    I am as well as all the residents of this fine state blessed to have the salmon/halibut/moose etc to eat. If a neighbor/friend/stranger is down and needs a healthy meal... your d@mn right I am going to offer some of my staple; even if it means I eat salmon once instead of twice a week for a month or two.

    Rich, these acts that we are speaking of come from kindness of the heart...Yes we could all eat every bit of what we harvest, but we are giving some of our food to those who need it more than we.
    When all else fails...ask your old-man.


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