View Poll Results: What action should be taken to deal with Kenai/Kasilof dipnet issues?

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  • Charge a fee for the dipnet permit.

    33 41.77%
  • Limit the number of dipnet permits.

    10 12.66%
  • Launch a PR/Cleanup campaign.

    30 37.97%
  • Pressure the State to enforce existing laws.

    59 74.68%
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Thread: Dipnetting Management Poll

  1. #1

    Default Dipnetting Management Poll

    Good ideas, all. Let's take this from talk to action.

  2. #2
    Member TR's Avatar
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    Good idea Tony. Police ourselves. Let us come up with the answer before the question comes to a head.

    I voted enforce existing laws. Baby steps. No sence over reacting to situations during one season.

    One simple thing that might help is to have the shack person on south Kenai checking permits upon entry. Sure there will be a very few not there to dip, but it would deter those who don't have one or a only a Chitina permit.

    Yes, this is ADFG's responsibility but sport guides check licenses. The city is charging for access, as a guide charges to put you on fish.

  3. #3
    Member TWB's Avatar
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    The resource is more than capable of sustaining itself without a limited # of permits, thats called escapement. Other areas of the state weren't so hot which meant a higher influx of folks to the Kenai. Enforce whats already in place. An officers daily wages will more than be paid if he does his job with his little book.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  4. #4
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    Default I like the ideas

    Except for limiting the number of permits, I think all of these choices deserve to be explored further.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  5. #5
    Sponsor potbuilder's Avatar
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    They limit the number of drift and set net permits so why not limit the number of dipnet permits?? Go by the number of years you have had a dipping permit or set up a points system to be able to get a permit.
    I'd like to see the gillnet web that almost everybody uses in the dipnets outlawed, go back to that "rope" used for landing nets and i'm 99% sure lots of folks wouldn't dip anymore and the catch sure would go down. Just my .02 cents worth.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    They limit the number of drift and set net permits so why not limit the number of dipnet permits?? Go by the number of years you have had a dipping permit or set up a points system to be able to get a permit.
    I'd like to see the gillnet web that almost everybody uses in the dipnets outlawed, go back to that "rope" used for landing nets and i'm 99% sure lots of folks wouldn't dip anymore and the catch sure would go down. Just my .02 cents worth.
    I'd like to see the setnetters use a smaller net? Lots of politics here but the bottom line is theres more than enough fish to go aorund without having to limit permits. It's more reasonable to limit the amount of commercial permits, than to double the amount that is already out there, but cutting their catch in half - Not too many guys would do the job if their permit was cut in half to allow more permits.The difference with commercial is that is just that, it's commercial..you sell your catch, we substitute our catch by not buying chicken, beef or pork from the store for the 12 months out of the year.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  7. #7
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    They limit the number of drift and set net permits so why not limit the number of dipnet permits??
    Because the quantity of fish being taken by dipnet is insignificant. There is more than enough fish for everyone's personal use. On the other side, if they didn't limit the commercial harvest, the fishery would be wiped out. You can base that on historical record going back over 100 years.

    I'd like to see the gillnet web that almost everybody uses in the dipnets outlawed, go back to that "rope" used for landing nets and i'm 99% sure lots of folks wouldn't dip anymore and the catch sure would go down. Just my .02 cents worth.
    What is the point of this? You're not understanding what the real problem is. It has nothing to do with the quanity of fish dipnetters are taking. Their permits already limit that. The size limit of the net and restrictions on when and where you can use it impose enough "fair catch" into the system as is. The type of net used is already limited to "pink" net, which is smaller than what the commercial gillnets are for sockeye. This is more than enough regulation on the equippment used.

    The REAL problem, again, isn't with the number of fish caught. It is with the CARELESS REGARD FOR PEOPLE AND PROPERTY demonstrated by a small percentage of the dipnetters. It's not even so much the crowds as it is the idiots amongst them.

    Really, all we need are more cops to keep the peace. A guy in SWAT gear with an AR-15 at the checkpoint booth (OK, not in SWAT gear, but you have to admit that would keep some rif-raf out) to check permits, licences, and give each and every arriving person a quick rundown on the rules. Then a constant presence of uniformed officers on the beach with 4-wheelers and on the water in marked boats during all hours of dipnetting. People will tend to behave better when they are under close scrutiny of the police. And we don't need any of those "Johnny" you-know-who officers out there as much as we need some friendly, helpful guys that will keep everyone on the right track, but drop the tickets as needed. And tickets for all the civil stuff as well as the fishing regs.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by joat View Post
    the real problem, again, isn't with the number of fish caught. It is with the careless regard for people and property demonstrated by a small percentage of the dipnetters. It's not even so much the crowds as it is the idiots amongst them.
    bingoooooo!
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    What State laws are not being enforced that have made the dip net fishery such a crisis?
    The crisis I see is the amount of people in the fishery and the amount of fish that are taken. The household limit can be lowered. I also like the idea of reaching a certain escapement amount before opening. We all say its about the fish, so the river and fish come first or there won't be a future fishery. If any enforcement is missing, tickets should be given to all who don't report on time or at all.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Because the quantity of fish being taken by dipnet is insignificant. There is more than enough fish for everyone's personal use. On the other side, if they didn't limit the commercial harvest, the fishery would be wiped out. You can base that on historical record going back over 100 years.

    Quoted for truth.

    I also agree that we need more enforcement. It's not that the regulations are necessarily lacking somehow, but there is often no one making sure they are being followed. Kenai PD is often the only one out on the beach doing anything. Where's Fish and Wildlife?

  11. #11

    Default Main complaints

    We're talking mostly nuisance crimes; littering, trespassing, disturbing the peace, etc.

    Perhaps more of a concern are wasting salmon, fishing without a permit, damaging the environment, etc.

    Rather than imposing a severe solution outright, I like an approach with escalating consequences. Let's get the uniforms out there first.

    ~tr

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtm9 View Post
    The crisis I see is the amount of people in the fishery and the amount of fish that are taken. The household limit can be lowered.
    Again with this... the "AMOUNT OF FISH TAKEN" has zero, zip, nada to do with the compaints being brought by the rest of the public against the dipnetters. There are LOTS of fish. You can thank the COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN for that as it is they who have bought and paid for salmon sustainment in Cook Inlet over the last 30+ years.

    The dipnet limit is fine. Leave it alone. The dipnet equipment regs are fine. Let them be. The short season with limited hours and heavily restricted location is fine. The only thing you could do here is expand the area where you can dipnet. Geography, however, won't really allow that.

    It's a people problem, not a fish problem.
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  13. #13
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    Default Another option

    Another option , at least for the Kenai as they have a person there at the entrance most of the time, would be an incentive such as vouchers for reduced fee next time for so many bags of trash brought out, or a drawing ticket for something, such as a new net, 4 wheeler, cooler, or any number of other items useful to an Alaskan user. The cost would be minimal for the expense of cleaning the beach I would think and everyone wants to get something for nothing. Hopefully, the amount of full trash bags for a voucher, or ticket, would be enough to cover your own trash as well as picking up someone else’s trash they thoughtlessly left behind and would result in a cleaner beach as well as river for everyone -- including the fish which you plan on eating. Besides, it might give the kids something to do that is constructive as well as teaching them good habits and maybe shaming the slobs into behaving better.

    Naturally, this would necessitate the more frequent picking up of the dumpsters, but I would think the city would be glad to do that if it really made a difference in how the area was kept and enough pressure were put on there as well. Dumpsters and outhouses at the point of overflowing tell me that more could be done in this area too. As to Kasilof, maybe the time has come to have someone there just to hand out clean-up vouchers or drawing tickets. Kids during the summer are always looking for jobs and will work well for not that much money, some are even intertested in the envioronment.

    Earlier on this Forum I made a comment that several years ago I went to Kasilof and it was a disgusting mess. Well, seeing as they had met their escapement and Kenai had as yet not, I opted to try Kasilof, north shore, on my second trip down this year and was pleasantly surprised. The beach and camping area actually looked pretty nice this time, and I would definitely consider going back again. All this shows that someone, or many someone’s have decided to keep it cleaner than the last time I was there. The dumpsters were pretty full, but nothing like the last time.

    GOOD JOB Kasilof users!

    Valley Trash, and proud of it -- In your face Ben Stevens :-]
    Last edited by uhldwm; 07-30-2009 at 16:13. Reason: Spacing and typos.

  14. #14
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    Everybody always points at the commercial fishermen and sez, "those guys will get every fish if you let them" well there are only so many permits issued, limited entry right?? same number of boats each & every year right?? and they can only fish so much gear by law right?? but every year there are how many more dipnetters with how many more kids that are entitled to there "share" of fish. Don't tell me they(dipnetters) have no effect on the fishery.

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  15. #15

    Default Poll still active

    Please vote if you haven't yet.

    ~tr

  16. #16
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    Default Potbuilder, dipnetters take averages 270,000 fish

    That is not a lot of fish when were are talking millions. Sportsfish take about the same. The stats show that for each person in a household, it comes out to 4.5 fish per person, per year. The average family's take is 13 fish. I have posted those numbers on other threads.

    Take is not the problem, a few slobs are a problem. 21 days to dipnet at the Kenai, not a very big slot of time there. Kasilof a little more. This year we will see where these federal lawsuits are heading in federal court. Until then, look at the fisheries management thread and then under Personal use management thread. Nerka will be posting a problem paper and we will all try to come up with some sane soulutions to this tiger of a problem and maybe present it to the BOF in the form of "agreed upon changes" for all to see and agree. I have a little stroke with a few people that can make these changes if... it is for the protection of the resource and the average joe Alaskan to all share and co-exist with other user groups.

    I got involved with the dipnet fishery issues when a commercial fisher tried to cut dipnetters back to three fish a day. I don't want them taking fish out of my freezer, and I will be da....ed if I let them take it out of yours.
    Nough said. I am a carpenter and my main season is in the summer. I don't have time to drive down each weekend to catch a limit of sportfish.
    So that is why I dipnet. have a good night.

  17. #17

    Default poll will close

    This poll will close on Thursday. There have been some great ideas, so I'm looking forward to this going to the next step.

    ~tr

  18. #18
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    That is not a lot of fish when were are talking millions. Sportsfish take about the same. The stats show that for each person in a household, it comes out to 4.5 fish per person, per year. The average family's take is 13 fish. I have posted those numbers on other threads.

    Take is not the problem, a few slobs are a problem. 21 days to dipnet at the Kenai, not a very big slot of time there. Kasilof a little more. This year we will see where these federal lawsuits are heading in federal court. Until then, look at the fisheries management thread and then under Personal use management thread. Nerka will be posting a problem paper and we will all try to come up with some sane soulutions to this tiger of a problem and maybe present it to the BOF in the form of "agreed upon changes" for all to see and agree. I have a little stroke with a few people that can make these changes if... it is for the protection of the resource and the average joe Alaskan to all share and co-exist with other user groups.

    I got involved with the dipnet fishery issues when a commercial fisher tried to cut dipnetters back to three fish a day. I don't want them taking fish out of my freezer, and I will be da....ed if I let them take it out of yours.
    Nough said. I am a carpenter and my main season is in the summer. I don't have time to drive down each weekend to catch a limit of sportfish.
    So that is why I dipnet. have a good night.
    so the state numbers of sport take...are figured how? by number of familys registerd to fish there or by alaskan house holds...???? only a small percentage of those households ever see any fish from those rivers.
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  19. #19
    Member TR's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to think the sport fish red take on the Kenai river is higher than the dip net take. Longer season. Conceivably on the Russian alone, and when it's 6 fish, one could out catch a dippers limt in a week. No good stats though. No cards to fill out everytime you catch.

  20. #20
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    Default Vince, stats are for dipnetting not sportfishing

    My numbers are from the stats the state keeps on dipnetting. There were put together during the 2006 BOF meeting. The average take by dipnetters is @ 275,000, per year. Average not actual numbers cause it varies every year. I have been told by Fish biologists from the state that sportfish catch is about the same. I guess thaey have done creel counts and extrapolated on that. Ask Nerka since he was a bio down by Kenai how they come close to the sportfish take. cause I am only going on what I was told.

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