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Thread: It was bound to happen

  1. #1
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    Default It was bound to happen

    I must of not been paying attention, my resize of the third 7.62 nagant case of the evening ended up stuck in the sizing die, with the teeny tiny rim torn off...

    And its live too..yep, after decapping, sizing, flaring, priming, charging and seating that bullet way down into the case, it has to get lightly run into the sizing die again to swage the case down and hold the bullet firm, then it gets crimped. Yes it sounds wierd but trust me, its the way

    So I gots me a live round stuck in the die.

    Suggestions? Im tempted to clamp the die into a vise in front of the trap, take a punch and whack it. The hole for the decapper is big enough to act like a barrel

    Arg...double arg.....

    2nd choice, cut off the head with a dremel and take it from there....

    Hey Kid, bring your safety glasses

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    if the hole for the decapper is large enough... can you remove it and ? not tap it down from the bullet end? or use a shortend case remover? one of the dies i bought came with a case stuck in it...... two min. it was out using the case puller after 20 min of vise grips and hammers and punches...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Problem is its a live round......thats the safety consideration

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    Default dont use the BB gun method

    a friend got a .223 round stuck in a die once and decided to drill a hole in a 2x4 to hold the die and set it out in the yard and shoot the primer with an air rifle ! Well it worked but guess where the case went !! He was lucky not to lose an eye or worse !
    Little bullets might expand ! But big bullets never shrink !
    When you swim with big fish try not to act like bait !

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    I would not use a dermal for fear of heat setting it off. Since you have access to the shop I would make a plug for the recap end with a grease zerk in it and pump it out with a grease gun. Or pack it with grease and use a tight fitting dowel as a piston to drive it out. Either way will work and not heart a thing, just takes time.
    Andy
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    Default I like his idea bestest....

    Safest option I've heard so far. Puttin that one in the tool box for later.


    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I would not use a dermal for fear of heat setting it off. Since you have access to the shop I would make a plug for the recap end with a grease zerk in it and pump it out with a grease gun. Or pack it with grease and use a tight fitting dowel as a piston to drive it out. Either way will work and not heart a thing, just takes time.

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    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I can get it out of there boss, just have to use a handy trick my wise old gunsmith instructor taught me.

    This is the safe way to remove a stuck live round from either a chamber or a reloading die. It takes patientce and DO NOT get in a hurry.

    First take a 1/16th drill bit, DO NOT put it in a drill under any circumstance. Using only your fingers to turn the bit, drill a hole through the cup and stop, DONT go any further. Next shoot the primer full of oil, WD40 works great, and really dowse it. Then turn it bullet end down and put in some more oil. Now we leave it for as long as we can stand it re-oiling periodically, no less than a couple of hours,overnight is better yet. The oil will neutralize the primer and the powder. Then we use the normal methods to remove it, only after we can feel reasonable sure that we are in no danger of it going off.

    Remember fellas it only takes once to lose an eye and you only get one spare. So take your time, wear your safety goggles, and please dont use your trusty Black and Decker.

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    Overnight? Dude, I want it now

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    Well at 9am, Kid drilled the primer and squirted in oil.

    So at 11:00 there we are, me, The Kid (head gunsmith) and Mitch (40 years of gunsmithing and machining). Punch and mallet in the Kids hand, look of bemusment on Mitch's face.

    The oil had soaked in and killed the powder.

    Unfortunately, in his boredom and needing something to do, the Kid was a widdle bit quick on the draw in letting the primer get killed.

    So when he wacked the punch, it penetrated the bullet and hit the primer, causing a loud "bang"...

    And the bullet climbed up the punch about a half an inch, stopping at the knurling.

    The Kid: Holy S***, check it out. Guess I should have waited
    Me: Giggle like a two year old girl with a new barbie.
    Mitch: So who is buying me a new punch (it was OK, hes just trying to scrounge)

    Lesson: Punch bigger than flash hole next time
    Lesson: Wait overnight

    We drove the case out, it was fine. The primer intact. All hands and fingers present. All shorts clean. Die fine, lets size em again tonight, need more lube and a lighter touch.

    Alls well that ends well

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Next time you want to kill a primer try 3-n-1 or some other petroleum base oil rather than fish oil based WD-40. I like Magic Tap for all kinds of stuff but I have not found any in Alaska so I have been using Liquid Wrench for my do all oil lately.
    Andy
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  11. #11
    Member Armymark's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Well at 9am, Kid drilled the primer and squirted in oil.

    So at 11:00 there we are, me, The Kid (head gunsmith) and Mitch (40 years of gunsmithing and machining). Punch and mallet in the Kids hand, look of bemusment on Mitch's face.

    The oil had soaked in and killed the powder.

    Unfortunately, in his boredom and needing something to do, the Kid was a widdle bit quick on the draw in letting the primer get killed.

    So when he wacked the punch, it penetrated the bullet and hit the primer, causing a loud "bang"...

    And the bullet climbed up the punch about a half an inch, stopping at the knurling.

    The Kid: Holy S***, check it out. Guess I should have waited
    Me: Giggle like a two year old girl with a new barbie.
    Mitch: So who is buying me a new punch (it was OK, hes just trying to scrounge)

    Lesson: Punch bigger than flash hole next time
    Lesson: Wait overnight

    We drove the case out, it was fine. The primer intact. All hands and fingers present. All shorts clean. Die fine, lets size em again tonight, need more lube and a lighter touch.

    Alls well that ends well
    Man, that sounds almost as fun as the time, when I was a kid, and tried to make a fuse by twisting some grains of my dad's black powder in a peice of wax paper! And lighting it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    I must of not been paying attention, my resize of the third 7.62 nagant case of the evening ended up stuck in the sizing die, with the teeny tiny rim torn off...

    And its live too..yep, after decapping, sizing, flaring, priming, charging and seating that bullet way down into the case, it has to get lightly run into the sizing die again to swage the case down and hold the bullet firm, then it gets crimped. Yes it sounds wierd but trust me, its the way

    So I gots me a live round stuck in the die.

    Suggestions? Im tempted to clamp the die into a vise in front of the trap, take a punch and whack it. The hole for the decapper is big enough to act like a barrel

    Arg...double arg.....

    2nd choice, cut off the head with a dremel and take it from there....

    Hey Kid, bring your safety glasses

    Whiskey, Tango Foxtrot!!

    Why would you not be able to load this round and chamber it the way we do everyother round and the way I've done 7.62x54 ammunition for many years?? What its the deal? Even if using you use .308" bullets, correct expander ball will get a tight fit in any normal sizing die and chamber. And what's with the flare are you using cast bullets? Even if seating a bullet below full diameter you could swage that down without the base touching the sizing die, what gives? It seems to me you are taking a long way around the barn not to mention endangering your self and folks around.

    If you want to crimp or size the neck down there are dies that could be use for the purpose without usin the sizing die.
    Is there a stem in this die that the case is stuck in? If not you could go in from the top and drill the bullet through. I'd re-try with what rim is left until it's all gone before getting too wild with the extraction. I''ve never heard of such an operation being necessary to load the Russian.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  13. #13

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    Sounded Foxtrot Uniform to me, but what about this:

    I have to assume the decapping stem is out of the sizing die. Why not just use a punch through the decaper shaft hole in the die to drive the whole mess out of the bottom?

  14. #14
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    Murphy, I think he's loading for a Nagant revolver, not a Mosin-nagant rifle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_mm_Nagant

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    Murphy, I think he's loading for a Nagant revolver, not a Mosin-nagant rifle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_mm_Nagant
    Oh, Hmmmmm...I get it that flush seated 7.62x38R....Ok, not the other 7.62's I use the 30 Herrett die to crimp the mouth around the bullet. That is a pain. Also I found a better shell holder than what RCBS calls out but I forgot the number. I have some Fiocchi boxer, fired brass for that thing somewhere, but I don't guess you need it.

    Thanks for clearing that up it was a...ah...puzzler. Oh, yeah guess who did the Wiki.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    It is a 7.62 nagant. The Fiocchi ammo is pretty common (unlike the Wiki articles allegation) but I think I have scomphed the entire Alaska supply and at even my price from Niels, its hard to feed all 10 of my babies.

    Hence the PITA loading.

    There are several good articles about loading this little monster, ranging all the way from using cut down and lathe turned 223 brass to using 32-20. That involves too much thought for my meager brain, especially when I have hundreds of Fiocchi empties. The stuff is reloadable, its just that little rim is brutal. I wrote an expose how to do it, I just dont know where I posted it

    Running it into the 30 carbine sizing die serves thee purposes...first, it holds the bullet in place as it sits halfway down the case. Second, it swages the bullet down a bit for better accuracy. Third it narrows the case mouth a bit so I can do the shouldered crimp, which I obtain with the 30 carbine seating die.

    Im on my 5th loading of this lot of 50 cases. Of course, but the time I am done, pulling off rims, crushing case mouths and generally being taken advantage of by a cartridge fit mostly for back of the head shots, Im down to like 42 cases. On the other hand, I can shoot 7 shots touching with it at 15 feet.

    What the heck I'm only wasting 2.7 gr of unique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Whiskey, Tango Foxtrot!!
    Got to love the phonics...

  18. #18

    Default Small drills

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I can get it out of there boss, just have to use a handy trick my wise old gunsmith instructor taught me.

    This is the safe way to remove a stuck live round from either a chamber or a reloading die. It takes patientce and DO NOT get in a hurry.

    First take a 1/16th drill bit, DO NOT put it in a drill under any circumstance. Using only your fingers to turn the bit, drill a hole through the cup and stop, DONT go any further. Next shoot the primer full of oil, WD40 works great, and really dowse it. Then turn it bullet end down and put in some more oil. Now we leave it for as long as we can stand it re-oiling periodically, no less than a couple of hours,overnight is better yet. The oil will neutralize the primer and the powder. Then we use the normal methods to remove it, only after we can feel reasonable sure that we are in no danger of it going off.

    Remember fellas it only takes once to lose an eye and you only get one spare. So take your time, wear your safety goggles, and please dont use your trusty Black and Decker.
    If you do it this way, go to the hobby shop and get a small hand drill (looks a lot like a writing pen). The bits go down to a size smaller than some sewing needles, but mostly the handle will give a much better grip than a plain drill bit.

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