Taurus "The Judge" 45 Colt/410
Anybody got one? What do you think of it? Pros/Cons? For those who don't know: Fires either 2 1/2" 410 shells, or 45 Colt. There is more than one model, both blued/SS:
They also make one to take the 3" shotshells.
Originally Posted by Marshall/Ak
I have never fired one, but in my hand, it felt surprisingly well-balanced for what it is. Not overly top-heavy. A 5-shot 45 Colt would be an excellent defense gun, but the 410 shotgun does not seem to have adequate stopping power to justify the extra cyliner, so I think a Judge in 45 Colt with an appropriate-length cylinder might be a better gun.
However, the limitation of the power levels is another matter. I have heard this revolver is not adequate for full-power 45 loads. It is it limited to "cowboy" loads, a 45 ACP would outclass it in both power and capacity and probably concealability, too.
Immediatly after learning that the 410 and the 45 Colt shared chamber dimensions (several decades ago) I thought it would be neat to have a revolver chambered as the Judge is. So, conceptually it is a great idea. Too bad the ballistics just aren't there.
Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post. Maybe especially this post.
Do your own independent, confirming research when ANYONE gives you new facts on the web.
Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.
As a survival arm, maybe OK...otherwise, great marketing
If I lived in snake country I snap one up right now. Here in AK I'd think they'd be of limited usefulness. Might make for a good halibut whacker though.
Thats what I tell the guys I work with that are from Texas. Man, I haven't ever seen a big rattler or anything like that, but it just gives me the heebie jeebies just thinking about it...
Originally Posted by stevelyn
As an Arizona boy that has lived in Alaska for 9 years now I can tell you snakes and bears pose about the same level of threat to people. In Alaska bear country we know cow moose are more likely to get ya than a bear. Likewise in the snake infested southern half of the lower 48 bugs are way more dangerous than snakes. My wife almost lost her leg to a little spider bite she never knew she bit her, brown recluse not a snakes. A good friend of mine was laid up for 3 weeks, could not talk for the first week, and almost died from . . . bees not snakes. I have many stories like that but the only guy I ever knew of that got snake bit thought he was smart and played with it for ten minutes before it tagged him. I donít like snakes but most snakes, like most bears, work hard to avoid people if they can.
The "Judge"...More Random Thought...
I did a little more thinking about this. I do not believe the "Judge" is limited to so-called "cowboy" loads, but is likely limited to the standard 45 Colt loadings. RE: A 255gr lead bullet at approximently 900fps. (So you probably can't use Corbon or Buffalo Bore "+P" max loads in it) (or at least it's not adviseable) The original black powder Colt loads used 40 grs of FFFg at about 900fps velocity, but nowadays all the factories use smokeless. (at roughly the same speed). Some "Cowboy" loads may be loaded to somewhat lesser power. What this generally means is the 45 Colt round has somewhat of a power edge over the 45ACP, due to the slightly heavier bullet. (255 vs 230, in the standard loading) However, the Judge is limited to 5-shots, whereas most 45 auto's have at least a 8 to 10 round capacity. (many have more than that) In appropriate modern six-guns, the 45 Colt can be handloaded to power levels that equal (and often exceed) the 44 Magnum. (However, the "Judge" is likely not one of those guns...make sure you really know before attempting this)
(1) I haven't read anywhere that the "Judge" is rated for handling "+P" 45 Colt loads, so handloading to equal the 44 Magnum is probably not an option...a big negative.
(2) 410 slugs, weighing only 95 grs, are next to worthless IMO, except for small to medium game...you'd almost always be better off to just use the 45 Colt round instead...
(3) You can use 410 shotshells with birdshot. What this means is you can take grouse, ptarmigan, rabbits, etc. at the closer handgun ranges...(up to perhaps 30')...a "plus". But then...you can buy shotshells for most of the other common handgun rounds as well...so this isn't as much of an advantage as it first seems...
(4) And lastly, but perhaps most important: the "Judge" has a loooooong cylinder, in order to handle 410 shotshells. What this means is that when using 45 Colt rounds there is a long jump before the bullet encounters any rifling...like maybe almost 2" or so of freebore. Except for reducing pressure, this is generally not good. This likely means poorer accuracy all around...because the bullet will have built up considerable speed before slamming into the forcing cone and rifling. Likely will cause more lead buildup as well. My best guess: better accuracy with jacketed bullets...not (the less expensive) cast...because of the freebore...
So...would I go out and buy the "Judge"? Nope. No way. I just don't see any advantage over what I already have.
If I want to shoot shot in my handgun, I'll just go to a gun store and buy the shot capsules and then hand-load them. (So far, haven't seen any need to). Yeah, I know: shot capsules are expensive. But then, so are 410 shells: about twice what you can buy 20ga or 12ga for...
My sidearm is a 454 Casull, which also shoots 45 Colt just fine. And...since the gun (obviously) is strong enough, I have no qualms whatsoever about loading my 45 Colt rounds to equal 44 Magnum performance. (IE: 300gr hardcast to around 1350fps) It's way easier on my hands than the full-blown 454 loads and, in most situations, is enough power. Just my $.02 worth...
PS: Concerning guns that shoot both 410 shotshells and cartridge: there is one more: many 45/70 rifles will chamber, and shoot, 2 1/2" 410 shells. Tried to with my 1895 Marlin, but it wouldn't work...the 410 rim is just too thick...headspace too tight...couldn't close the action. Might work with other guns though. (I'm not suggesting this is safe...do so at your own risk...)
45/70 and .410 ain't even close.Thats why they make 45colt/.410,the 45/70 is complette different critter