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Thread: Fightable Case? Russian River Incident

  1. #1

    Default Fightable Case? Russian River Incident

    My sister and I decided to head out to the Russian on our first trip together and got into some trooper trouble. I'll try to be un-biased as possible since i'm seriously considering contesting this ticket.

    We got to the otherside of the Russian by ferry around 12:30PM and we were fishing about 50 YRDS (estimate) down of the gutting station. I caught a sockeye within 15 minutes of working the river and was doing fine until my 2nd catch. I caught my sockeye and had landed it toward the bank, from initially looking at it, it looked like a legal hook in its mouth so my sister got excited and conked its head with a bat a couple times. All the while a trooper was standing 4 feet to the side and said lets take a look at where its hooked. Upon closer look the hook actually entered through the bottom side of the fishes mouth. The trooper said it was an illegal catch and said that we killed the fish making it a violation. So he gave me a ticket of 125 + 10 surcharge = 135 bucks. He also warned me saying that I am attempting to snag fish out of the river because I jerk at the retrieve. What pissed me off was that he said he's been looking at me for 10 minutes + . So what that sounded like to me was he was just waiting for me to make a huge mistake to give a big ass ticket like this one.

    I took a guided trip from a friend before on the Kenai ( he's been fishing on it for 10+ yrs) and he told me before I went a hook 2 inches from the mouth is fine. The hook was closer than 1 inch from the mouth. I could have maneuvered the end of the hook into the mouth, thats how close it was. Just that the hook entered the bottom portion of the mouth when I set the hook.

    I am thinking about contesting this ticket and would like some feedback. Also what is considered a legal set hook in a fish? When your flossing, arn't you going to get the hook set on the outter portion of the mouth? It sounds unrealistic to only catch the fish when the hook is INSIDE the mouth of the fish.

    Thanks for listening to my rant. I am probably in the wrong doing, but I just want some answers.

  2. #2
    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default Well.. You are Right and You are Very Very Wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by chayo234 View Post
    My sister and I decided to head out to the Russian on our first trip together and got into some trooper trouble. I'll try to be un-biased as possible since i'm seriously considering contesting this ticket.

    We got to the otherside of the Russian by ferry around 12:30PM and we were fishing about 50 YRDS (estimate) down of the gutting station. I caught a sockeye within 15 minutes of working the river and was doing fine until my 2nd catch. I caught my sockeye and had landed it toward the bank, from initially looking at it, it looked like a legal hook in its mouth so my sister got excited and conked its head with a bat a couple times. All the while a trooper was standing 4 feet to the side and said lets take a look at where its hooked. Upon closer look the hook actually entered through the bottom side of the fishes mouth. The trooper said it was an illegal catch and said that we killed the fish making it a violation. So he gave me a ticket of 125 + 10 surcharge = 135 bucks. He also warned me saying that I am attempting to snag fish out of the river because I jerk at the retrieve. What pissed me off was that he said he's been looking at me for 10 minutes + . So what that sounded like to me was he was just waiting for me to make a huge mistake to give a big ass ticket like this one.

    I took a guided trip from a friend before on the Kenai ( he's been fishing on it for 10+ yrs) and he told me before I went a hook 2 inches from the mouth is fine. The hook was closer than 1 inch from the mouth. I could have maneuvered the end of the hook into the mouth, thats how close it was. Just that the hook entered the bottom portion of the mouth when I set the hook.

    I am thinking about contesting this ticket and would like some feedback. Also what is considered a legal set hook in a fish? When your flossing, arn't you going to get the hook set on the outter portion of the mouth? It sounds unrealistic to only catch the fish when the hook is INSIDE the mouth of the fish.

    Thanks for listening to my rant. I am probably in the wrong doing, but I just want some answers.
    Bottom line is AK stat law state "hooked inside the mouth." Bummmer deal here is your sister was not trying to break the law, I would gamble that there is a very very high percentage of fish hooked by similiar means that you fish was and that due to the fact that fishing has slowed down up there so much u just where unlucky.

    As far as contesting the ticket, I think u are SOL Charlie unless you took pictures as evidence to where the hook was in proximity to the mouth and have some way to verafy them as evidence in this case.

    [QUOTE][So what that sounded like to me was he was just waiting for me to make a huge mistake to give a big ass ticket like this one. /QUOTE]
    This is his job, what he does best, no fault in that, possibly you swing at the end of the drif t caught his attention and he followed his instincts... looks like he was 100% correct.


    He also warned me saying that I am attempting to snag fish out of the river because I jerk at the retrieve.
    This is very very very difficult to prove and he knows this.. That is why u recieved a citation for keeping a foulhooked fish vrs a actual snagging ticket... Blatent snagging is very difficult to nearly impossible to "prove" in cares like this.

    So you have a lugitiment contest on the snagging warning and I would go w/ that.. Don't contest the keeping a fish foulhooked because quite simply you where caught redhanded breaking the law, period.

  3. #3
    Member theultrarider's Avatar
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    Sorry, inside the mouth only. Yes, there are lot of folks out there that believe otherwise. I can't see you winning that one. Yes, he could have "educated" instead of the ticket though.

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    This sucks. Im not saying I have ever nor will I ever hook a fish in the lower jaw. If you hooked him in the gills and he was bleeding like a stuck pig he probably would not have said anything. i just wish i knew where those guys are when people are hauling big bows up the river, packing thier gills with dirt and punting them back into the river. Dropping the F U bomb as i ask them to take care of them. I do think your hosed but i dont think your doing anything nobody else is.
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  5. #5

    Default

    You'll lose this one big time. Sorry dude, pay the ticket and consider it a lesson learned. Just admitting that you jerk at the end of the retrieve.... well there you go. It doesn't matter if it's a lot or a little. Personally, I hate that kind of fishing and there is no need jerk or as they call it do the "Kenai Twitch". And what guide told you "2 inches from the mouth is fine"? That guy should have his license pulled.

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    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
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    Take it to court, plead your case just as you've stated it here, then take your beating if that's what it comes to. Reading the regs ahead of time prevents a lot of heartache later. Yep, interpreting the regs sometimes requires a law degree but it's still the law.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

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    Letter of the law is "inside out", this was stressed to me my first summer up here by the campground host at Crooked Creek (Shirley). I had tell me, in the head, in the upper half of the fish, just about everywhere but I have always followed "inside out" as a safe rule.
    Personally, I would fight it. It was a mistake, not intentional, you did not kill the fish nor tell your sister to kill it. If the troopers gave everyone a ticket for the "twitch" at the end of a sockeye flip they would give 90% of the people on the banks a ticket.

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    Member wykee5's Avatar
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    Default jerking

    Jerking at the end of a drift is a real pet peave of mine. It is absolutely unnecessary and all it does is snag fish. Sure you will hook some in the corner of the mouth, but those fish would have been hooked just the same had you picked up your drift without the jerk. The people that are consistenly snagging fish will jerk at the end of their drift. If you watch what is happening on the river, some people are hooking up all the time, but they are hooking snagged fish. Then you watch others, and almost every fish they hook is a legal hook. Yet the people that are snagging all the fish think they are doing good because they hook up all the time. DO the same thing you have been doing, but let the drift finish itself, and if you are doing it correctly, at the end of your drift the fish will simply be on. No need for the huge jerk, or even a little jerk for that matter. It is unfortunate though to learn with a big ticket. The matter could have been resolved had he told you before hand, but as it was stated earlier, he is just doing his job. Maybe some signs explaining the correct drift technique and discouraging the jerk would go a long ways over there. I have even seen people casting out and reeling in like they were pike fishing. Sorry about the ticket, but next time try it without the jerk, and look for fish hooked in the corner of the mouth. I have heard they only need to be hooked forward of the gills, but I like to play it better safe than sorry.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Exclamation 2 inches from the mouth...!

    your guide steered you wrong ... lucky that alaska just specifies "in the mouth"... where i grew up the regs stated that the fish "must VOLUNTARILY take the hook or lure in it's mouth"
    the way i read the regs, flossing (though accepted by many) IS snagging. all the angler is trying to do is get the hook in the fish at the mouth... no "fooling the fish" or trying to provoke a "real" strike.
    hook in mouth = legal. not in mouth=$135 no real difference in "technique", just your bad luck.
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    The tough ones are the flossed fish where the line goes through the mouth and the hooks in the corner of the mouth but it from the outside in.

  11. #11
    Member ChuckD's Avatar
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    Being a relative noob that sucks for you.
    I just wonder where these guys are when I saw a person pulling in a fish bassackwards and keeping it?

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    that's pretty awesome that they are giving tickets for flossing, maybe they should just shut down the fishery. I'd plead not guilty and hope he doesn't show up to testify
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default How is that tough??

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    The tough ones are the flossed fish where the line goes through the mouth and the hooks in the corner of the mouth but it from the outside in.

    Legally that is clearly snagged... No question... Ethicially I understand that possibly keeping the fish is better then releasing it.... AK law clearly states "Inside the mouth."

  14. #14
    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default What???

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    that's pretty awesome that they are giving tickets for flossing, maybe they should just shut down the fishery. I'd plead not guilty and hope he doesn't show up to testify
    The guy got a ticket for keeping a foulhooked fish, preiod... The warning is total bugus and Sn SGT Al Kane will tell you that proving attempting to snag a fish is very very difficult to prove.. So the trooper was spinning his wheels on the snagging technique warning.

    As far as gettin a ticket for a foulhooked fish... The guy was caught redhanded... Even if it was an innocent mistake. Simply like a speeding ticket... If you cry about the consequences then don't break the flippin law!

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    Default Beat it to death

    What is are you doing clubbing the fish anyway!

    Check to make sure it is hooked "in the mouth" and then cut its gills while it is still alive. Bleeding it out will significantly improve the quality and freezer life of the meat or however you preserve it - just like any other animal.

    The trooper probably figured you were a rookie when he saw your sister beating the poor thing to death.
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  16. #16
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Wink and therein lies the rub...

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    they are giving tickets for flossing, maybe they should just shut down the fishery.
    the fishery is essentially "accepted" snagging ... i would wager most of the fish kept in the red fishery are hooked from the outside in.

    seems to me either the law should be enforced (which would essentially make the fishery illegal) or changed... how about "a portion of the hook must be within the fishes mouth"?
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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    can somone tell me where it says "INSIDE" the mouth..i've only can remember IN the mouth. i got hit IN the mouth once, but it wasnt' in on my teeth it was on my lips...i'd be curious to see the actual word for word...
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    Default Regs

    In the current SE Regs the book only says "in the mouth".

    I guess if you hook it outside it is in the lips - or do fish have lips? Jaws maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TYNMON View Post
    Legally that is clearly snagged... No question... Ethicially I understand that possibly keeping the fish is better then releasing it.... AK law clearly states "Inside the mouth."
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default Seriously..

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    In the current SE Regs the book only says "in the mouth".

    I guess if you hook it outside it is in the lips - or do fish have lips? Jaws maybe?
    If the hool goes from outside in it is illigal.... Bummer, it actually happens w/ kings quite often, esp using lures.

    Now I have threaded from the the inside of the mouth out, this would be considered legal in all likelyhood.

  20. #20
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Red face

    debating the difference between "IN" and "INSIDE" somehow reminds me of bill clinton... sorry... couldn't help myself...
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