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Thread: Clarion Letter about Dipnetting

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    Default Clarion Letter about Dipnetting

    http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.ph...u=3Xj3i&ref=nf

    Interesting thoughts. Any comments?????

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    Default Wonder

    I wonder what Ryan does for a living- perhaps he is connected with the commercial fishing industry in some way or has relatives that are? I have to wonder why he is so concerned about the dipnetter or sport fishermen take of a few hundred thousand while the commercials guys are gettting millions!

    The first reader's response was pretty good IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.ph...u=3Xj3i&ref=nf

    Interesting thoughts. Any comments?????
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Tv your hysteria reaches a peak. Given he lives in Kenai I'm willing to bet SOMEONE he knows works commercial fish one way or another.
    What's commercial fishing connections got to do with the price of tea in china in regards to that letter? Sportfish (personal use) and commercial are both part of the management plans.

    I think the letter was over the top Yukon. I can see what the guy was saying though. I like to dipnet and eat my salmon. I also am not the one getting my town overrun, and dealing with more hassles than any other time of year. I know one reason I don't live in Sitka is how the cruise ships overrun it. Maybe he feels like that? Some of the stuff he brings up are factual, and just like TV I thought the response had good points too.

    Dipnetting DOES affect the dunes in a negative way though, and habitat destruction should be discussed. Mitigation is reasonable. I'm pretty sure dipnetters on the whole can be responsible enough to keep this tradition going. (by tradition it's been around how many years now? 25?) Still it's a good idea if done right. I think we've been moving in the right direction. (trash cans, fees, toilets), but could do a LOT better.

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    Thumbs up We xcan do a lot better!!!

    3 to 5 % give all of us dipnetters a bad name. Most folks are in tune with the resource and the habitat. I have seen dipnetters and setnetters driving their machines over the dunes. No one and every one is to blame.
    This guy speaks from the heart but is ignorant of the BOF process. I was there once. Someone please school him on how the process works. LOL, Ken

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    http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stor...68614974.shtml

    THis is a better link to the letter.

    A couple thoughts I had were as follows:

    The letter writer says that if the commercial fishermen are restricted so should the dipnetters. That is true, both would be shut down (to my knowledge).

    THis begs the question, if the commercial fisheries are EO'd then shouldn't the dipnetters and sportfishermen?

    THey get EO's but the Kenai sportfishermen have not gotten any. With the current run strength on the Kenai neither should be getting EO's.

    If I remember correctly the dipnetters get around 250,000 fish, maybe more maybe a little less, I am sure someone has the exact figure in front of them, I don't have the time right now.
    How many fish do the commercial fishermen get in one 12 hour EO??? How many total fish do the commercial fishermen get verses the sport and dipnet take combined?

    Please, don't read anymore into what I am saying than what it is, I am not suggesting it should be equal or anything like that.

    I am just pointing out that the writer of the letter states that if the commercial fishermen are restricted then everyone should be. I am pretty sure that is how it works. The opposite doesn't hold true, when the commercial fishermen are EO'd the other user groups don't necessarily get any extra fish.

    With 8000 sockeyes passing the sonar yesterday it will make for an interesting next few days. I got a feeling these strong winds are keeping the fish away from the river and probably making it tough on the netters.

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    Somtimes Yukon I wonder why sportfish doesn't use more EOs period. Seems to be inflexible currently. Sportfish CAN do EOs can't they? (rhetorical) Maybe someone knows what's up w/that. I'm pretty sure it's all w/in sportfish though, but don't know. I've read it in these thread somewhere!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    How many fish do the commercial fishermen get in one 12 hour EO??? How many total fish do the commercial fishermen get verses the sport and dipnet take combined?
    On July 20th the Central District comm fishermen harvested 213,244 reds. On the 23rd they harvested 194,212 reds.

    Total catch year to date for the Central District commercial fleet is 1,895,119 reds.

    No firm numbers on the dipnet catch but it is nowhere near 250,000 this year considering the low numbers to date. Probably less than 100,000.

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    Default Great stats....

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcticwildman View Post
    On July 20th the Central District comm fishermen harvested 213,244 reds. On the 23rd they harvested 194,212 reds.

    Total catch year to date for the Central District commercial fleet is 1,895,119 reds.

    No firm numbers on the dipnet catch but it is nowhere near 250,000 this year considering the low numbers to date. Probably less than 100,000.

    Really puts things in perspective!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYNMON
    Really puts things in perspective!!
    What do you mean by that?

    The early run of Kenai reds already exceeded the top end of goals.

    The Kasilof already met goals and will exceed the top end of its goals too.

    The Kenai late run is less than half way into the season, and 100,000-200,000 fish above what it has been at this time in the three previous years, and 5 of the last 10 previous years. An EO closing commercial fishing is currently in effect as a conservative approach to the recent low counts.

    Sportfishermen and personal use dipnetters have been provided ample opportunity, and taken that opportunity, to harvest plenty of sockeye in the Central District. Surplusses have gone unharvested.

    All management plans, fishery laws, and conservation practices are being followed, and from a management perspective working.

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    So, if there isn't a big push of fish over the next week or two that allows the lower end of the escapement to be met can we agree that the commfish allocation was a tad overdone or will you just blame the dipnetters and sport fishers for catching too many?

    Just curious since the second there is a commfish restriction it seems that suddenly the commfish folks start pointing fingers at the personnal use/sport fishery as the ones who are responsible for the low counts.

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    Default Yukon, It has been slow going dipnetting this week

    The winds seem to have the fish stacked up outside in the inlet. Since Saturday, the dipnetting has been real slow and the tides have been really big too. Many people giving up for the year. Hope we make our escapement to boot. I guess the slow dipnetting isn't such a bad thing if we want escapement. Hate to say that, but I did. Please SCADA members, don't shoot me for saying that. Ken

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    I'm a taxpayer in Anchorage Municipality. I think we should tax everyone from the peninsula to drive into Anchorage. I'm tired of paying for infrastructure for non-property tax paying individuals from Kenai who don't want me to come there to fish.







    If panties are in a wad, I thought I would throw in a little fake whine as well.



    In all seriousness, how much money comes into Kenai during dipnetting.

    Most of the folks I know who dipnet don't have a boat that qualifies to use on the Kenai. Classifying everyone who dips as folks who dump $22000/year into gear for the fishery is BS and a pointless argument that circumvents any potential points that the guy has.
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    Default a joke from the city of Kenai

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    I'm a taxpayer in Anchorage Municipality. I think we should tax everyone from the peninsula to drive into Anchorage.
    In all seriousness, how much money comes into Kenai during dipnetting.

    Most of the folks I know who dipnet don't have a boat that qualifies to use on the Kenai. Classifying everyone who dips as folks who dump $22000/year into gear for the fishery is BS and a pointless argument that circumvents any potential points that the guy has.
    A member of the city administration told me once that Anchorage dip netters come to Kenai with a pair of jeans and a 20 dollar bill and change neither while they are here.

    However, the mayor and city council understand the value of the dip net visitors from Anchorage - with the large box stores they want people in their city and the dip net fishery does that.

    The city really has controll of the Kenai dip net fishery. If they close the boat launch and beach it is all over. So people should be nice to them.

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    Default Nerka, right on!!

    When I come to the Kenai City docks, I ask for Andy, the Assistant harbormaster. He is always there cause the Harbormaster himself runs to Homer every year just before the Dipnetting onslaught. Andy directs traffic and does a bang up job at that. I always ask Andy, what does it need to make things go more smoothly? I bring State legislature's down to show them the problems and to take them dipnetting too. They get to see the problems first hand. Money needs to be directed at the right problem. Taking these guys fishing lets them see what neeeds to be done. I only wish that more people would help out with the details. Enough said, I'm done whining. Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcticwildman
    So, if there isn't a big push of fish over the next week or two that allows the lower end of the escapement to be met can we agree that the commfish allocation was a tad overdone
    No. I would not agree with that assumption at all.

    Managers don't have the luxury of hind-sight. Thankfully they don't manage the fishery based on emotions, or "if's". They manage based on goals established by the BOF, and management plans defined by Alaska law. They use historical data and proven models that are scientifically defendable. That isn't to say they are perfect, or that Mother Nature can't throw them a curve-ball, or that run abundance doesn't fluxuate unpredictably. That is why they use in-season management flexibility based on various in-season indicies and abundances.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcticwildman
    Just curious since the second there is a commfish restriction it seems that suddenly the commfish folks start pointing fingers at the personnal use/sport fishery as the ones who are responsible for the low counts.
    I don't see that. What I see are commercial folks who have lost a chunk of their allocation to an in-river dip net fishery that has an unlimited allocation. Keep in mind just 25 years ago there wasn't even such a thing as a personal use dip net or sport fishery for sockeye on the Kenai.

    To rub salt in their wound, they are slowly seeing more and more restrictions, as our sport fishing industry grows. They get shut down for conservation concerns, while we are allowed to continue netting them in-river. Keeping in mind, by law, the fishery is to be managed primarily for commercial harvest, and that the burden of conservation is to be shared by all user groups. Not to mention the misinformed contention and blame used against them when fish aren't automatically jumping in our boats, even though the commercial fishery has been an intregal part of our sustained fishery all along.

    As for pointing fingers...I find it ironic that today commercial fishing is closed due to conservation concerns, yet we are allowed to continue sport fishing and netting in-river.

    Nerka, I'm always more concerned with what the fishery is costing us (in so many ways), rather than what the finacial gains are (if there are any). Living here all my life, I've got a good "before and after" picture. And it ain't pretty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    A member of the city administration told me once that Anchorage dip netters come to Kenai with a pair of jeans and a 20 dollar bill and change neither while they are here.

    However, the mayor and city council understand the value of the dip net visitors from Anchorage - with the large box stores they want people in their city and the dip net fishery does that.

    The city really has controll of the Kenai dip net fishery. If they close the boat launch and beach it is all over. So people should be nice to them.
    I wish I could do it for $20. I easily spent over $500 in one weekend.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

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    Default it was just a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by garnede View Post
    I wish I could do it for $20. I easily spent over $500 in one weekend.
    It was just a joke like blowing the bridge at Hope. We all know how important Anchorage dollars are to this area. What would it take to get you to spend 1000?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    What would it take to get you to spend 1000?

    Install a bar on a floating dock that opens at 11PM and closes at 8AM.


    Kidding, of course.
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    Default well. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    It was just a joke like blowing the bridge at Hope. We all know how important Anchorage dollars are to this area. What would it take to get you to spend 1000?
    Better access (boat launches and campgrounds). In the past few years we've essentially lost Riverquest, Riverbend and Stewarts. Have the city buy Riverbend, Stewart's and Eagle Rock and have them run them like Centennial. Then build a big launch and parking area at the Warren Ames bridge.

    I know, I'm dreaming. But access is a problem.

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    $500...that's a lot of sockeye from a catcher-seller.

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