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Thread: short thumper ideas

  1. #1
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default short thumper ideas

    Ok, so I am insanely jealous of Alaska_Lanche's short barreled trapper model 45-70 GG. So much so that I was about to start making calls using Skype to local dealers then just send my wife out to pick one up for me. Then I realized she is WAY too busy to be running the roads chasing down a new rifle for me w/ school starting full time for both her as well as my 2 oldest boys. (She IS super woman!)

    Then it occured to me that I have 2 stripped lowers and parts kits waiting on my when I get home. One is going to be a 1/4 bore WSSM but the other one is a project foundation w/ no direction. I wonder if I can build a collapsable stock carbine length AR with 200 yard capability on moose and blackies and 100-150 yard capability on the big bears. The 30 remington comes to mind but would be a bit short on the power end and certainly not a "thumper". A 35 would be neat but I am not aware of one on the market at this time. So I am left w/ the 458 SOCOM, 50 Beouwolf, 450 Bushmaster. Can any of these compete w/ the short Guide Gun? The rifle would be my boat and raft gun primarily. I am also thinking about going strictly Iron sights on it but I am not sure which ones would be the best mix between 200 yard accuracy and fast in close aquisition.
    A big concern is consistant feeding of the weapon. I trust my life to the fact that the Guide Gun is going to chamber and fire. Is the reliability there in any of the thumper AR cal's to earn that level of trust?

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    My vote is going to be the 50 Beowulf. I've been lucky enough to throw some 50 caliber projectiles down range with my buddies from work. I got to say its a fun rifle to shoot.

    Short, light weight, I dont have numbers in front of me but it is similar ballistically to the 45/70. Did I mention fun to shoot?

    But better get in line, not sure what type of wait time you will have from alexander arms, but my buddy has been waiting a month or two for more brass

    Can't comment on the other 2 calibers mentioned

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    Just looked up some reloading data on the 50, saw a 400 grain hawk pushed at 1800 fps, so close to the 45/70

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    I think it depends a whole lot on your tastes an interests. I can't help you with the AR approach, but I'll define my own thumper dreams.

    My current carry gun is a 20" barrel 375 H&H, but I'm getting a strange hankering for essentially the same gun in a 458 Winnie. Yeah I know, the Lott does a lot more, but I just want something to fit the dies and all the brass I already have on hand. Nothing fancy and certainly not as flat shooting as my 375, but I'll be putting a peep sight on it anyway, so I'm not looking for long range.

    And thump? My favorite load in the 24" barrel on my other 458 knocks on the door of 2200fps with 500 grain bullets. I'm betting I can beat 2000fps and knock on the door of 2100fps with the same load in a 20" barrel. My favorite 400 grain Speer load hovers just below 2400fps from my 24" barrel, so I'm betting it will readily top 2200 from the 20". Just clip the barrel on the existing rifle to 20"? Naw, that would be too easy.

    No reflection or criticism on your AR choice, which sounds dandy, too. But I've been flipping bolts since my first in 1961, and this old dog is just an old dog fresh out of new tricks.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    I have also been drooling some on the 50 Beouwolf after checking data on it for a friend, looks like it should be a very good woods round. Built right and kept in oil the AR should be good also.
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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Look again at the .458 SOCOM. It's been marketed as a tactical round, but in an article I read about 6 years ago it was neck-in-neck with the .45-70. There's a wide selection of .458 bullets and you can use pointy ones!

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Look again at the .458 SOCOM. It's been marketed as a tactical round, but in an article I read about 6 years ago it was neck-in-neck with the .45-70. There's a wide selection of .458 bullets and you can use pointy ones!
    You can buy 50 Beouwolf pointy also, even with the little plastic points that are all the rage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Look again at the .458 SOCOM. It's been marketed as a tactical round, but in an article I read about 6 years ago it was neck-in-neck with the .45-70. There's a wide selection of .458 bullets and you can use pointy ones!
    I think you should get the .458 SOCOM. here are plenty of us already but the more we have the better group buys on brass we can do!

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    definately go with the 458 Socom much better bullets. A lot of the 50 cal bullets are designed for the 50 AE and just wont' hold up at higher velosities. With the socom you can send 300gr barnes tipped TSX at velosity for those 200 yard shots and use 500gr solids w/tube for a sweet subsonic "silent death".

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Its fun watching folks try to build a new bullet that equals one thats a 150 years old.Cost wise it would be cheaper probably to just by a GG

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Its fun watching folks try to build a new bullet that equals one thats a 150 years old.Cost wise it would be cheaper probably to just by a GG
    While I have no doubt you are right that the cost of the GG will be lower, I already have 1/2 of the AR purchased. I can mail order the rest of the gun and have it ready to assemble when I get home. If they made a 45/70 upper I would certainly just buy it!

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Ok, so I am insanely jealous of Alaska_Lanche's short barreled trapper model 45-70 GG. So much so that I was about to start making calls using Skype to local dealers then just send my wife out to pick one up for me. Then I realized she is WAY too busy to be running the roads chasing down a new rifle for me w/ school starting full time for both her as well as my 2 oldest boys. (She IS super woman!)

    Then it occured to me that I have 2 stripped lowers and parts kits waiting on my when I get home. One is going to be a 1/4 bore WSSM but the other one is a project foundation w/ no direction. I wonder if I can build a collapsable stock carbine length AR with 200 yard capability on moose and blackies and 100-150 yard capability on the big bears. The 30 remington comes to mind but would be a bit short on the power end and certainly not a "thumper". A 35 would be neat but I am not aware of one on the market at this time. So I am left w/ the 458 SOCOM, 50 Beouwolf, 450 Bushmaster. Can any of these compete w/ the short Guide Gun? The rifle would be my boat and raft gun primarily. I am also thinking about going strictly Iron sights on it but I am not sure which ones would be the best mix between 200 yard accuracy and fast in close aquisition.
    A big concern is consistant feeding of the weapon. I trust my life to the fact that the Guide Gun is going to chamber and fire. Is the reliability there in any of the thumper AR cal's to earn that level of trust?

    adfields and I are making a 416 NMA chambered in a short action BLR with an 18 in. barrel. 6llbs. even.........350 grain bullet(2,400 fps).....ouch.....BEAR STOPPER

  13. #13
    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    At Knob Creek, KY, last year they had a guy who was selling a shoulder fired 20mm. The muzzle break was 12" long. That would do well on Bear

    Gibbs made a 45-70 on an Enfield action with a short barrel. Then shoot double tap or buffalo bore out of her. Or load some LBT hard casts.

    Ron

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    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
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    Check out this thread:
    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=1234

    Ed makes some nice guns for your thumping needs. Michigan Deer need big guns!

    Ron

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    If you prefer the ar platform, then that is the deciding factor.

    Having played the thumper game with boltguns in various chamberings, here are some things to consider. What you see listed in catalogs and online vs. what you can buy off the shelf isn't the same thing, and that's not just with todays shortages. Thus I would highly recomend going with the .458 bore, component bullet choices, and availability blow away the 40 cals, 47 and 50 cals. Also consider how available brass is, including whatever parent case the brass is made from.

    IMHO, while the 50's are cool, they don't make much sense until you look at the 50 alaskan in a lever gun, or the 500 A-square in a bolt gun.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    This is going to be a "fun gun" and I think I have settled on the 458 SOCOM as I have done more research. It appears to have near 45/70 capability in the AR 15 platform. I have two lowers set aside for projects and this seems like the perfect toy. I will probably order a RRA upper and a ace skeleton stock. The 16" barrel should make for a fun thumper carbine that will work like a champ in the area I moose hunt. It will also be a great float gun and give me the ultimate reason to start reloading! This and a 25WSSM upper w/ a 22" barrel and colapsable magpul stock should make a pretty sweet 2 gun AR set!

  17. #17
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
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    RRA was having some issues with its uppers not extracting correctly. I don't have the web address with me, but you should be able to find more info by Googling "458 SOCOM forums" and going to the caliber specific board.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

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    You guys want a thumper?...We have a brand new custom 458 Win Mag built on a Mark X action, all the custom touches, that weighs 7.5 lbs with a 20" barrel

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    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
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    Funny enough, the link I was trying to think of is www.458socomforums.com.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  20. #20
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kay9Cop View Post
    RRA was having some issues with its uppers not extracting correctly. I don't have the web address with me, but you should be able to find more info by Googling "458 SOCOM forums" and going to the caliber specific board.
    Any ideas of other manufacturers of the 458 SOCOM uppers?

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