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Thread: 2 strokes on Skilak

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    Member RC23's Avatar
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    Default 2 strokes on Skilak

    Does anyone know what the fine is for using a 2 stroke on Skilak in July?

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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Here is a start

    Alaska Department of Natural Resources
    Alaska Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation
    (907) 269-8702
    <chris.degernes@alaska.gov>

    On January 31, 2008, Lt. Governor Parnell filed the regulations dealing with dealing with boat and motor restrictions in the Kenai River Special Management Area (KRSMA). The new regulations will be effective on March 1, 2008. The new regulations will be published in Register 185, April 2008.

    In compliance with AS 44.62.175(a)(7) and (b), the following information is provided:

    The new regulations will permit the use of 50 horsepower motors, as long as any motor that is larger than 35 horsepower is a four-stroke or Direct Fuel Injected (DFI) two-stroke motor. Additionally, all motors used within the Kenai River Special Management Area during the month of July must also be either four-stroke or DFI two-stroke motors. Boat size will also be limited to no more than 21 feet long or 106 inches wide, except that persons who provide proof of ownership that the boat was owned by that person prior to Feb. 1, 2008 may apply for a permit to use the larger boat until Jan. 1, 2010. After that date, all boats used in the KRSMA except on Skilak or Kenai Lakes must meet the size limits specified in this new regulation.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Skilak does not have horsepower or 2/4 stroke restrictions. If it does its news to me! Guides haven't whined and cried and got it shut down, yet!

    Tim

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    Is it the guides who are responsible for this s***?

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Yep. They'll play some hydrocarbon bs as the argument for the new restrictions, but it comes down to the fact THEY are polluting the drainage (how many guides are there? 300? 400?) and want to get private angles off the river and out of the way so they can continue to make their living.

    That's my take on it. Case in point though, no restrictions on Skilak.

    Tim

  6. #6

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    On page 6 of the Southcentral fishing regulations it shows 4-stroke restrictions on both Kenai and Skilak lakes.

    HORSEPOWER RESTRICTIONS— no one may operate a boat on the Kenai River upstream of a DNR marker located (at approximately river mile 4.0) downstream of the Warren Ames bridge with an outboard or combination of outboards having a total propshaft rating greater than 35 HP, unless the motor is a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor. Outboards with a total propshaft rating greater than 35 HP must be a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor. Adding a jet drive to any motor does not change its equivalent propshaft HP rating. The maximum propshaft rating of outboards must not exceed 50 HP. In Kenai and Skilak lakes outboards having a total propshaft rating greater than 35 HP must be a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor.


    FOUR-STROKE/DIRECT FUEL INJECTION MOTOR REQUIREMENTS— during the month of July, including Kenai and Skilak lakes, no one may operate a motorized boat on the Kenai River upstream of a DNR marker located (at approximately river mile 4.0) downstream of the Warren Ames bridge unless the motor is a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor.

  7. #7

    Default Guides had little to do with this regulation

    Guides had little to do with this regulation - it was a water quality issue - not a guide issue.

    The Kenai Watershed Forum has worked on water quality monitoring on the Kenai River for much of the past decade, monitoring water quality components, such as the level of hydrocarbons in the river.

    Their studies definitively showed a link between hydrocarbon exceedances and two stroke motors, specifically in July. Two-stroke motors dump about a third of their fuel directly into the water column. Hydrocarbons were also independently reported on by a third party, and confirmed the results of the hydrocarbon levels being above the state standards.

    DNR took public comments, which many people provided input to, as well as all the local governments.

    Exceedance of the hydrocarbon levels put the Kenai River on a EPA list of contaminated waters - through the new regulations the levels of hydrocarbons have been significantly reduced, and the Kenai River most likely will be delisted from the contaminated waters listing in the near future.

    The regulations for only four-stroke motors in July is in effect through 2012. Then it goes into effect year round.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HC130FE View Post
    On page 6 of the Southcentral fishing regulations it shows 4-stroke restrictions on both Kenai and Skilak lakes.

    HORSEPOWER RESTRICTIONS— no one may operate a boat on the Kenai River upstream of a DNR marker located (at approximately river mile 4.0) downstream of the Warren Ames bridge with an outboard or combination of outboards having a total propshaft rating greater than 35 HP, unless the motor is a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor. Outboards with a total propshaft rating greater than 35 HP must be a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor. Adding a jet drive to any motor does not change its equivalent propshaft HP rating. The maximum propshaft rating of outboards must not exceed 50 HP. In Kenai and Skilak lakes outboards having a total propshaft rating greater than 35 HP must be a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor.


    FOUR-STROKE/DIRECT FUEL INJECTION MOTOR REQUIREMENTS— during the month of July, including Kenai and Skilak lakes, no one may operate a motorized boat on the Kenai River upstream of a DNR marker located (at approximately river mile 4.0) downstream of the Warren Ames bridge unless the motor is a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection motor.

    Bummer. That really sucks. Why the hp restriction on Kenai & Skilak lakes? That's stupid. "Bank erosion?" Do 4 stroke 90 hp engines put more hydrocarbons in the water than a 50hp? What a joke.

    Btw, I still blame the guides as they are the ones fishing 14 hours a day/ 7 days a week/ ALL SEASON, creating the problems. Residents aren't out there fishing 24/7 ALL SUMMER.

    Tim

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    Member RC23's Avatar
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    I'm with TCC. I do maybe 2 or 3 runs across Skilaak a year. Hardly worth buying a $2700 motor tha is an extra hundred pounds more than my 2 stroke.

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    Two strokes burn oil producing significant amount of hydrocarbons. 4 strokes do not burn oil, and the direct injection 2 strokes burn much more efficiently than regualr two strokes. lots of used 4 strokes on craigslist for way less than 2700.
    I think it is worth it to keep the river cleaner by reducing 2 stroke traffic. The horsepower rating has nothing to do with the hydrocarbons in the river. if you like to fish and float the river, i would think keeping the river healty is the most important thing. blaming guides is a bit off course.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    I'm bitter, and like blaming the guides.

    I'm on the river (Skilak) 2-3 times a year; NOT 24/7/the whole summer. Why restrict hp on the lakes then? What's the rationale? Plus, I'm legal <35 hp, but NONE of my buddies are. I guess I won't tell them!

    What's the avenue to get this changed? The freak show err...guides are on the Kenai, NOT Skilak. I'd like to at least see unlimited hp on Skilak & Kenai Lake, regardless of 2 or 4 stroke.

    BTW, haven't seen ANY affordable 35-50 hp 4 stroke motors on craigslist. $1850-$2000 for a 15 hp 4 stroke though.

    Maybe the WHOLE KENAI should be float-only to "preserve the resource," that's a pandora's box
    Tim

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    The HP restriction on the lakes is a dumb application of this law.

    Not that I really care since the biggest outboard I own is 2.5 hp.

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    Member RC23's Avatar
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    Rumor has it they aren't enforcing the 4stroke law on Skilak. Anyone else heard this?

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Bummer. That really sucks. Why the hp restriction on Kenai & Skilak lakes? That's stupid. "Bank erosion?" Do 4 stroke 90 hp engines put more hydrocarbons in the water than a 50hp? What a joke.

    Btw, I still blame the guides as they are the ones fishing 14 hours a day/ 7 days a week/ ALL SEASON, creating the problems. Residents aren't out there fishing 24/7 ALL SUMMER.

    Tim
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I don't think there is a hp restriction on Skilak or Kenai lakes. I believe it just states that if you run an outboard greater than 35hp it needs to be a 4 stroke/direct fuel injection, except for the month of July, during that time frame all must be 4 stroke or direct fuel injection 2 strokes.

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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RC23 View Post
    Rumor has it they aren't enforcing the 4stroke law on Skilak. Anyone else heard this?
    Don't believe it.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Maybe the WHOLE KENAI should be float-only to "preserve the resource,"
    Sounds good to me!

  17. #17
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Guess I may be paying a fine; cheaper than buying a four stroke.

    When/where/how do I participate to get rid of the restrictions on Kenai/Skilak Lake? That ought to be a priority! There definitely should NOT be horsepower limitations on Skilak, let alone 4 stroke requirements in July. What is the justification for restricting horsepower on Skilak/Kenai Lakes? Can't be "bank erosion." Smells like tofu and bean sprouts....

    Tim

  18. #18
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default Drift only river someday

    Today I did a shuttle for a group of rafters, they started at Skilak and did the middle portion of the river. Taking out at Bings and Moose river, ( Izak Walton)
    Several rafts, ( 4 ), the people in the rafts (12 or more ) were doing visual survey of the river. Not only Federal national wildlife employee's, but also contractor enviromentalists. and State employee's..
    I was interviewed by the group as to what I have witnessed over the past 20 years in use of this portion of the river.
    We have been renting out drifting equipment ( rafts,canoes, Kayaks ) and power boats for this portion of the river since 1991.
    The Refuge keeps good records of our rental boat use, and the State does the same.
    Questions were general in nature, but mostly aimed at the amount of traffic change on this portion of river.
    They asked what my perceptions were.
    As an avid motor boat user, along with my use of the canoes, Kayaks and rafts, my sentiments were wide based.
    My drift is that you will see in not so many years, a drift only area on this portion.
    It will probably start with losing a few days a week of motor boat use. ( giving the river a rest ), etc. Then in time it will go to full drift use area such as the most parts of the upper river.
    Thinking that it will first go drift from a few hundred yards of the lake out, to the First Cabins and road access above the Kenai Keys.
    The reason for this is the protest of the folks that use motor boats to access their cabins on the islands and the funny river side of the river.
    That may be good enough for them and stop there, but my guess is that in our lifetime we may see the river a drift only all the way to Warren Ames bridge.
    4 stroke is sort a like the seat belt laws passed years ago..
    " We are not going to pull you over if we notice you are not wearing your seat belt, but will ticket you if pulled over for some other reason and your not wearing it",,, and then when everyone becomes comfortable with that, then the new law a few years later is,," If we notice or think you are not wearing your seat belts, We will pull you over".
    its a conditioning thing..
    "put a Frog in boiling water he jumps out.
    put a Frog in cool water and turn the burner on low, and he will just stay in the kettle until he is cooked..."
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  19. #19

    Default 2 stroke or DI

    What I can,t understand is most 2 stokes built after 1992 were 100 to 1 mixture rate. Direct injection
    2 stokes are 100/1 mixture also. What is the difference on polution?

  20. #20
    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    Default Not direct injection

    Quote Originally Posted by kk alaska View Post
    What I can,t understand is most 2 stokes built after 1992 were 100 to 1 direct injection
    2 stokes are 100/1 mixture also. What is the difference on polution?
    I was corrected on this a few months ago. Direct injection is different than oil injection with direct injection being cleaner burning. I believe there are only a few manufact. making 2 stroke direct injection motors. I know Evinrude, Yamaha, and Mercury all do.

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