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Thread: Powder type=recoil managment?

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default Powder type=recoil managment?

    Gun Browning A bolt in 270 win
    Remington Brass
    Bullets= Nosler 150 ballistic tip. yellow
    primer= CCI200

    shooter-13 yr old daughter....

    okay so the demo graphics are out of the way i am looking at setting up some loads for my daughters rifle and am reading the loading Manuel.

    what is the correlation to faster burning powder- slower burning powder and the type of recoil felt?

    at my disposal is (by order of burn rate)

    h4350
    h4831
    imr7828
    Rl 19
    rl22
    rl25


    i also have from Murphy some Rl 12...( Murphy? i think you said use that in place of 15?)

    each of these ( bar the 12) are listed as powder for this round. i am NOT interested in working this up to max load. these will all be kept on the low end for shooting and hunting with my daughter. so she can keep it comfortable.

    she has been shooting the 115 gr managed recoil, and 130 gr hydra shock.
    with out any difficulty, my goal is to make it enjoyable with slightly less accuracy at this time... as they all have a 100yrd max at this time.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Gun Browning A bolt in 270 win
    Remington Brass
    Bullets= Nosler 150 ballistic tip. yellow
    primer= CCI200

    shooter-13 yr old daughter....

    okay so the demo graphics are out of the way i am looking at setting up some loads for my daughters rifle and am reading the loading Manuel.

    what is the correlation to faster burning powder- slower burning powder and the type of recoil felt?

    at my disposal is (by order of burn rate)

    h4350
    h4831
    imr7828
    Rl 19
    rl22
    rl25


    i also have from Murphy some Rl 12...( Murphy? i think you said use that in place of 15?)

    each of these ( bar the 12) are listed as powder for this round. i am NOT interested in working this up to max load. these will all be kept on the low end for shooting and hunting with my daughter. so she can keep it comfortable.

    she has been shooting the 115 gr managed recoil, and 130 gr hydra shock.
    with out any difficulty, my goal is to make it enjoyable with slightly less accuracy at this time... as they all have a 100yrd max at this time.
    You're exactly on the right track Vince, though you'll get even more reduction in recoil if you also drop velocities while going for faster burning powders. For the ultimate in low recoil practice rounds, look into loads with SR4759, as listed in the Speer manual. Max load is only 26 grains at a little under 2000fps.

    I see they list loads for 4064 in the 150 grain too. I've only got real experience with 4350 and mostly H4831 in 270 rather than faster powders, but in other calibers a switch to 4064 or especially 3031 allows you to use significantly lighter charges to achieve "hunting" velocities. I've put that in parentheses because I'm not talking full power loads here. For young or inexperienced shooters, I've come to rely on bullets ranging from 125 to 150 grains at around 2500 fps for deer and close range moose, and results are simply outstanding. It puts the round into the 30-30 class for both recoil and ballistics, which is ample for lung shooting at reasonable hunting ranges.

  3. #3
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Gun Browning A bolt in 270 win
    Remington Brass
    Bullets= Nosler 150 ballistic tip. yellow
    primer= CCI200

    shooter-13 yr old daughter....

    okay so the demo graphics are out of the way i am looking at setting up some loads for my daughters rifle and am reading the loading Manuel.

    what is the correlation to faster burning powder- slower burning powder and the type of recoil felt?

    at my disposal is (by order of burn rate)

    h4350
    h4831
    imr7828
    Rl 19
    rl22
    rl25


    i also have from Murphy some Rl 12...( Murphy? i think you said use that in place of 15?)

    each of these ( bar the 12) are listed as powder for this round. i am NOT interested in working this up to max load. these will all be kept on the low end for shooting and hunting with my daughter. so she can keep it comfortable.

    she has been shooting the 115 gr managed recoil, and 130 gr hydra shock.
    with out any difficulty, my goal is to make it enjoyable with slightly less accuracy at this time... as they all have a 100yrd max at this time.
    There are several factors in managing recoil, and certainly powder type and amount effect recoil, but I would also look at a lighter bullet. Given your parameters, I would look at the cup & core 130 grain bullets by any of the major manufacturers (Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler, etc.). They will provide all the terminal performance you want and reduce recoil from the 150 grain Ballistic Tip.

    Choosing among the powders you have listed RL 15 would be a good choice since it is similar to IMR 4064. I would start with 45 grains and chronograph your results. Then you'll know where to go, either up or down. I wish you the best with this and hope your daughter has great success.

  4. #4
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default

    thanks for the tips guys... but 4064 is not on the available list...


    so Velocity = recoil?

    so if i stick to minimum standards of the reloading Manuel.. th H4350 at 48gn and 2532 would be the LESS FELT recoil...?

    I guess i need to be ore clear, is a faster or slower powder easier to roll with.

    by using the minimum loads, is the faster sharper? then the slower powders, or is it rolled and easier to absorb?


    I have what we have, at least until more is readily avalible.... so it is what we will use.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  5. #5
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    thanks for the tips guys... but 4064 is not on the available list...


    so Velocity = recoil?

    so if i stick to minimum standards of the reloading Manuel.. th H4350 at 48gn and 2532 would be the LESS FELT recoil...?

    I guess i need to be ore clear, is a faster or slower powder easier to roll with.

    by using the minimum loads, is the faster sharper? then the slower powders, or is it rolled and easier to absorb?


    I have what we have, at least until more is readily avalible.... so it is what we will use.
    Sorry. Thought I read RL 15, but you have a small supply of RL 12, which I would save for cartridges like 30/30 & 35 Remin. I would try the reduced load in 4350 first and see what happens. I've not tried to load down a 270 before, but I've done other cartridges and had "okay" results from the slower powders. I've noticed with the slower burning powders they are less consistent with light loads and a stronger ignition source seems to improve their performance. If you have other primers available, magnum primers in particular, you might give them a try. I've no proof (just correlation) this is the most effective way to load down. Magnum primers seem to help with accuracy and produce more consistent velocity in light loads of slower powder.

    I do not think with the velocity you are after that you will notice much difference in recoil among the various powders. Of course there is some difference, but in your case on the minimum side of velocity you should not experience as much difference as in maximum loads and high velocity. Please report on your results.

  6. #6
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    Vince: you might consider going with cast bullet and driving them in 1600-1800 fps category. I use 4198 and the recoild is close to 0. They are just as noisey as full power though. If I remember correctly, with the 150 Lyman bullet and a 100 yard zero, they drop about 6" to 200. Just a light recoiling consideration. J.

  7. #7
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    WOW what a difference Powder makes.


    okay i made two set of testers...

    both minimum loads 150 solid base Ballistic tip


    one of

    RL 19 @ 51 gn and 2662 fps
    the other

    H4831 @ 51gn and 2728 fps.. now to my books 70 fps should not be that large a deal is why i picked the first two as near compairisons...


    my daughter is still off at her moms for the summer so i put the rifle to the test my self and then handed it to the missus

    this is in a Browning A bolt. not a real heavy rifle but easy to handle.

    the RL 19 has CONSIDERABLY less recoil then the H 4831

    i noticed a sharp difference between the two... and then handed to Kim.

    and her reply was HOLY sh** when she pulled the H4831 off...

    both grouped with in 1/4 inch of each other.

    i was able to pick up some RL 15 this week at frontier.. ( they had quite a bit in) as well a bottle of Unique.

    i will take the suggestion of COR. above and try some target rounds of the RL 15. and compare it to the H4350 next...

    the wife and i came back to Fbk with serious shooters shoulders this last weekend..

    i finally was able to finish my rounds made with Jake in the 300 as well about 100 I made for the .243,

    i also pulled a great round for my sako finnbear 7mm... 591/2 gn of RL22 with a 160 gn accubond 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards is very respectable for that old rifle. they went dramatically larger with each increase in load....

    all in all between the 243/270/7mm/300/&338 we pulled the trigger 263 times. ( and some of the neighbors did not know we came home?)


    more on the kids loads next week... but i guess i need a chrono.... to say for certian what they are doing... NAAAA... as long as they hit the shoot and see 8" at 100 yards. well know.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  8. #8

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    Vince,

    Recoil is affected basically by two things. Mass and velocity. there is a good article in wiki on it, and I wouldn't be surpised if our own professor Murphy wrote it or contributed to it.

    http://www.shootingwiki.org/index.ph...tanding_Recoil

    The article correlates recoil to momentum which is simply the factoring (multiplying) of mass to velocity.

    I would actually think that recoil is more closely correlated to Force rather than Momentum. The defintion (or formula) for Force is F=ma, or Force equals mass times acceleration. Acceleration is usually measured in feet per second-per second (ft/sec/sec).

    Simply put, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. When your 130 grain bullet goes 2900 fps in one direction, your 7 1/2 lb rifle goes a bit slower in the other direction. Sooo... in order to decrease recoil, you must decrease velocity and/or mass. I would recomend looking at the 110 TSX if your looking for a ligthweight hunting bullet. It will make just as big a hole in whatever it hits as a 150 gr jacketed bullet at velocites of 1900 fps and greater.

    You can check out the Hodgdon site to see what powders produce what velocities with differnt weight bullets. H380 seems to be a good low velocity powder in the 270 Win

    http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

    Here is an online ballistics calc that can help you detrmine which loads will produce lower momentum (recoil). Just plug in the velocity and bullet weights. The math doesn't lie.

    http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.asp...=/balcalc.ascx

    Last, a good after market recoil pad like a Limbsaver will greatly reduce (absorb) felt recoil over most factory pads. I also use a slip-on recoil pad for the heavy hiiters on the bench.

    Hope this helps and glad to see your daughter getting into the shooting and hunting world.

    Best,

    MR

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