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Thread: How is the one fish limit in 2c affecting charter business

  1. #1
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    Default How is the one fish limit in 2c affecting charter business

    Just wondering how the one fish limit is affecting halibut charter business in Southeast. Are people still paying to go fishing for one Halibut?

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    Default Any SE Halibut charter captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain T View Post
    Just wondering how the one fish limit is affecting halibut charter business in Southeast. Are people still paying to go fishing for one Halibut?
    How did the season go for you guys.

  3. #3

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    The charters in SE are now targeting bigger fish. The 10-15lb halibut just don't cut it anymore..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    The charters in SE are now targeting bigger fish. The 10-15lb halibut just don't cut it anymore..
    Are you saying the limit could be two halibut, as long as they were restricted to 10 lbs? Or are you saying charters in SE never targeted big fish, but instead targeted the 10-15 pounders? I've been on a few halibut charters in SE...their goal was always to catch a "big one".

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    Are you saying the limit could be two halibut, as long as they were restricted to 10 lbs? Or are you saying charters in SE never targeted big fish, but instead targeted the 10-15 pounders? I've been on a few halibut charters in SE...their goal was always to catch a "big one".
    Grampy,

    These are my observations..

    Most of the charters out of the port I fished out of came in with 10-15lb halibut, for years. Once in awhile, they'd luck into a big one, but the little "eaters" were standard.(despite what pictures you might see on their websites) All the charters in my area are combo charters, with salmon fished for first. The little halibut were grabbed after limits of salmon were caught. I know of charter boats that didn't even carry heavy halibut gear!

    Now that folks are limited to one halibut, they all want a bigger halibut, because they really like eating halibut. (understandable) Charter captains, in an effort to make sure the customer is happy in a very competitive business, find bigger halibut for them to catch, so the customer can go home with a good supply of halibut. It's rather simple.

    In a few years, all the captains will have adapted to the new rules, and will be experts at putting big halibut in the boat. As well as limits of yellow eye, rockfish, and lingcod. They will run out to the same areas the commercial guys fish, and catch the fish the commercial guys are used to catching. Talk about the commercial boys shooting themselves in the foot! The comm fish fleet would have been waaay better off letting the charter fleet be happy catching and keeping the little halibut in the same areas they were salmon fishing.

    This last year was my last year of charter fishing. Decided it was time to spend my summers taking my kids fishing, not clients.

  6. #6

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    So the management scheme is working. That's a good thing for you, your kids and the rest of us Alaskan's.

    Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post

    This last year was my last year of charter fishing. Decided it was time to spend my summers taking my kids fishing, not clients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ResidentsFirst View Post
    So the management scheme is working. That's a good thing for you, your kids and the rest of us Alaskan's.

    Thanks.
    Interesting, so you are saying the regulation was put in place to put charters out of business?

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    Default More like a plot

    It's a scheme alright........

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Interesting, so you are saying the regulation was put in place to put charters out of business?

    It's all been hashed out before.

    Commercial fishing is commercial fishing. When there is a group of commercial fishers (Charters) operating outside of the bounds of resource managers ability to limit the impact of that group then some tool needs put into place to accomplish the management objectives.

    One fish limits on Charters was the answer; and it's apparently working.

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    So you are okay with sportfishermen who access the resouces second class fishers? They are not entitled to the same fish as anglers with a boat?

    No need to answer, I think I already know, and yes you are right, this has all been discussed before, so no need to do it again.

    I am just sad to hear that you were happy the regulation put a family business, out of business.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    So you are okay with sportfishermen who access the resouces second class fishers? They are not entitled to the same fish as anglers with a boat?

    No need to answer, I think I already know, and yes you are right, this has all been discussed before, so no need to do it again.

    I am just sad to hear that you were happy the regulation put a family business, out of business.
    Of course I am not happy that a family has been put out of business BUT the truth of the matter is the Charter industry IS the source of his "out of business" problem.

    To be clear:

    It is not residents with their own boats that are putting some in the commercial Charter fleet out of work.

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    Default Not the charter industry

    Quote Originally Posted by ResidentsFirst View Post
    Of course I am not happy that a family has been put out of business BUT the truth of the matter is the Charter industry IS the source of his "out of business" problem

    To be clear:

    It is not residents with their own boats that are putting some in the commercial Charter fleet out of work.
    The NPFMC is the source of the problem in the charter industry.....NPFMC=commercial fishermen

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ResidentsFirst View Post
    Of course I am not happy that a family has been put out of business BUT the truth of the matter is the Charter industry IS the source of his "out of business" problem.

    To be clear:

    It is not residents with their own boats that are putting some in the commercial Charter fleet out of work.
    While everyone has argued round and round about this for seemingly ever, the reason that the Charter Industry is feeling the pinch is because of an inequitable allocation to fish as they get a very small percentage of the total catch. Is this allocation right or wrong? That answer varies upon your perspective and what your view of fair is.


  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ResidentsFirst View Post
    So the management scheme is working. That's a good thing for you, your kids and the rest of us Alaskan's.

    Thanks.
    Actually, the one fish limit had nothing to do with me not fishing next year. I worked for a lodge and they'll be hiring another capt...

    Funny your name is "Residents First".. I suppose you are one of the "subsistence users" who go out and set 30 hook skates, and catch 20 halibut a day? That is exactly what the residents of Craig/Klawock and Sitka do here in SE, and then they have the stupidity to moan and complain about a NR keeping 2 halibut a day.. It's almost shameful with what the "Residents" get away with under subsistence rules.... Subsistance halibut is one of the most wasteful and abused systems ever invented by our crazy federal goverment. Just pisses me off that "Residents" go set 30 hook skates (and then don't go pull them for 5 days because of weather, wasting the fish) but are stupid enough to critize another citizen for catching halibut on a rod and reel.. They moan and complain about NR catching coho's in the rivers, and then go dipnet more coho than any family will ever eat! Go trophy hunting during a "subsistance deer hunt" (given a 20ish day head start, and are given an extra tag), shoot black bears on the road system while everyone else can't hunt from the road.. net sockeye, etc..

    Rural residents are given every advantage in SE AK. The fact is that most of the guys who bash the charter fleet either can't pass a piss test or they failed as a charter captain at one point in time of their life..

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    Default From federal register on this issue.

    One Million eight hundred and fifty six thousand lbs were caught by the sport charter fleet in area 2C in a four year period (04 - 07). That is hardly a "very small" percentage of catch. It's a decent junk.
    One Million eight Hundred and fifty six thousand pounds.



    Harvests by charter vessel anglers
    were below the GHL in 2003 and above
    the GHL in 2004 through 2008. Table 1
    provides the GHL for each year, the
    specific amounts of charter vessel angler
    harvest, and the percentages of those
    amounts compared to the GHL. Figure 1
    provides a graphical representation of
    the GHL and the specific amounts
    harvested. Table 7 in the analysis (see
    ADDRESSES
    ) shows that implementation
    of a one-halibut daily bag limit would
    reduce charter vessel angler catch to a
    range of 1,495,000 lbs (678.1 mt) to
    602,000 lbs (310.7 mt), depending on
    various average weight scenarios and
    assumptions about reductions in
    demand. NMFS determined that the
    one-halibut daily bag limit was the best
    alternative to bring charter vessel angler
    harvest close to the 931,000 lb (422.3
    mt) level, after comparing it with other
    options and reviewing the range of
    potential harvests under the one-halibut
    daily bag limit based on various weight
    scenarios and demand reduction
    assumptions. Taking this action is
    consistent with the action proposed at
    73 FR 78276. Also, it will bring the
    harvest of halibut by charter vessel
    anglers in Area 2C closer to the 788,000
    lb (357.4 mt) level than will the
    status
    quo,
    consistent with the Council’s
    intent.
    From 2003 to 2007, the GHL for Area
    2C was 1,432,000 lbs (649.6 mt). In
    2008, the IPHC reduced the Total CEY
    to 6,500,000 lbs (2,948.4 mt) from the
    2007 Total CEY of 10,800,000 lbs
    (4,899.0 mt). This was a reduction of
    4,300,000 lbs (1,950.5 mt) from the 2007
    Total CEY. The reduction in the Total
    CEY triggered a reduction of the GHL for
    Area 2C from 1,432,000 lbs (649.6 mt)
    to 931,000 lbs (422.3 mt) for 2008. In
    2009, the IPHC again reduced the Total
    CEY to 5,570,000 lbs (2,526.5 mt),
    which again triggered a reduction of the
    Area 2C GHL from 931,000 lbs (422.3
    mt) to 788,000 lbs (357.4 mt) for 2009.
    As shown in Table 1 and Figure 1, the
    average charter vessel angler harvest in
    Area 2C for the four years 2004 through

    2007 was 1,856,000 lbs (841.9 mt).

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    So you are okay with sportfishermen who access the resouces second class fishers? They are not entitled to the same fish as anglers with a boat?

    No need to answer, I think I already know, and yes you are right, this has all been discussed before, so no need to do it again.

    I am just sad to hear that you were happy the regulation put a family business, out of business.
    It wasn't a family business, and my decision to quit fishing was to spend more time with the kids, and do some sheep hunting in Aug up in the Brooks..

    But "ResidentsFirst" attitude is spot on with the Comm Fish Fleet. Destroy the charter fleet to ensure the gravy continues... The comm fish fleet got one heck of a deal with the IFQ system..

  17. #17

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    AKbrownsfan,

    I remember seeing a graph of the average size of charter caught halibut, per area.. Do you have that?

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    Default

    I might be able to dig it up. Here's a decent synopsis of the issue for everyone's reading pleasure.

    The respective roles of the IPHC and the Council in managing the commercial, sport and subsistencefisheries for halibut are described in the preamble to the proposed rule for this action (73 FR 78276, December 22,2008). Each year, the IPHC establishes an
    annual total Constant Exploitation Yield (Total CEY) for Pacific halibut based on the most recent estimates of the overall halibut biomass. The IPHC then subtracts estimates of all noncommercial removals (sport,
    subsistence, bycatch, and wastage) from the Total CEY. The remainder, after the noncommercial removals are subtracted, is the Fishery CEY for an area’s directed commercial fishery. Any increases innon-commercial removals of halibut will necessarily decrease the portion of the Total CEY available as Fishery CEY for use by the commercial sector. The
    IPHC annually sets a catch limit for the commercial longline fishery in each regulatory area in and off Alaska that is based on the Fishery CEY but not necessarily limited to the Fishery CEY.
    In 2003, NMFS approved and established (at 50 CFR 300.65(c)(1)) the
    Council’s recommended guideline harvest level (GHL) policy to serve as a benchmark for monitoring the charter vessel fishery’s harvests of Pacific halibut. The GHL does not limit harvests by charter vessel anglers, however. Subsequent regulatory action, such as this action, is necessary to control the charter vessel fishery’s harvests to the GHL. Harvests by charter vessel anglers exceeded the GHL in Area
    2C each year from 2004 to 2007, and the best available estimates indicate that the 2008 GHL also was exceeded (Table 1 and Figure 1 of this preamble). Harvests of halibut by the charter sector above its
    GHL reduce the Fishery CEY. By reducing the amount of fish available to the commercial sector, the charter harvests create an allocation concern.
    Charter removals should be close to the GHL or the methodology used by the IPHC to determine the Fishery CEY is undermined and results in a de facto reallocation from the commercial sector in subsequent years.
    Charter vessel harvests in excess of the GHL also create a conservation
    concern by compromising the overall harvest strategy developed by the IPHC to conserve the halibut resource. The Total CEY and the Fishery CEY have decreased each year since 2004 reflecting declines in the estimated halibut biomass. As the Total CEY decreases, harvests of halibut should decrease to help conserve the resource.
    Hence, the GHL is linked to the Total CEY so that the GHL decreases in a stepwise fashion as the Total CEY decreases. Despite a decrease in Total CEY and the GHL in recent years.




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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti
    The comm fish fleet would have been waaay better off letting the charter fleet be happy catching and keeping the little halibut in the same areas they were salmon fishing.
    The commercial fish fleet doesn't make those decisions, although they are the easy scapegoat.

    The one halibut regulation in 2C was implemented by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) in conjunction with the International Pacific Halibut Commission (IPHC) and North Pacific Fishery Management Council (NPFMC) per regulations and authority established under the Halibut Act of 1982 and other laws. The regulations are subject to the Secretary of State and Commerce of the United States.

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    Default link

    http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/frules/74fr21194.pdf


    Link where I got the above, and tons more information.

    Plus it's old hat soon hopefully. The catch sharing plan may sometimes limit it to one fish, but othertimes not. It would actually pretty predicable, unlike the current sitations. Also from what I know, which is not much, allocation is still part of the discussion. I'll get that link about the Plan too.

    270ti here is a link to what you were asking about..........but it's a long PDF again. I quickly looked at it and saw the topic (which is how a One fish Limit may affect overall size of fish, and health of stock) , did have an table on average weight of halibut in 2C. I'll keep looking for that table. I remember it now that you mentioned it.

    http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/npfmc/curre...CSPdisc709.pdf
    Last edited by Akbrownsfan; 10-01-2009 at 22:52. Reason: added link for 270ti

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