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Thread: white red salmon?

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    Member garnede's Avatar
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    Default white red salmon?

    Has anyone heard of a white red salmon? I caught a small red at Kasilof that weighted maybe 2# and had white flesh. It was crome and had no spots. It looked just like the other reds, just a lot smaller.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

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    Might have been a small chum. Happened to me a couple times.

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    Member garnede's Avatar
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    That is the only thing I can figure. The book said that crome chums have yellow bellies, but this one was white. Oh well it taste good anyway.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

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    Was it a jack king that was past it prime? Most times those little kings do not turn red they just get a dark shade of chrome but the flesh does turn from red to white.

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    Sounds like a jack chum to me.

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    Default Likely a very chrome early pink...

    Quote Originally Posted by rippinlip View Post
    Sounds like a jack chum to me.
    While it is possible that it was a chum, that would be like pulling a needle out of a haystack... Little early for they few chums that come up there...

    My vote is for a chrome pink that spots where not visible on or as Iceblue stated a little jack king. I have seen quite a few pinks on both the Kasilof and or Kenai this early and yes even on odd years.

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    Atlantic maybe??

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    possibly a steelie as well. I have caught rainbows that had hardly a visible spot on them as well.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYNMON View Post
    My vote is for a chrome pink that spots where not visible on or as Iceblue stated a little jack king. I have seen quite a few pinks on both the Kasilof and or Kenai this early and yes even on odd years.
    Another vote for the pinky.

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    I would lean towards a steelhead, because both pinks and chums have orange flesh when still in ocean colors.

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    Default Steelhead have orange flesh too..

    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    I would lean towards a steelhead, because both pinks and chums have orange flesh when still in ocean colors.
    Often times pinks and jack chinook have very washed out if not white meat even when ocean bright.... I have seen many Kenai Guide mistake these early pinks for jack chinook... Scale size is obvious key feature and deeply forked tail too. Pinks are very very soft... A spawned out kelt stealhead in not likely to be chrome.... Although it could have been a rainbow... I have seen sea run rainbows caught in the South Beach of the Kenai.

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    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    The coloration of rainbow trout/steelheads flesh depends on what they eat. If they are eating something that contains a lot of carotinoids then their flesh turns orange. obviously a chrome fish would not be a spawner, but many times steelhead in their ocean color don't have visible spots.

    How are you differentiating steelhead and "sea run rainbows"?

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    Default Pretty simple.........

    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    The coloration of rainbow trout/steelheads flesh depends on what they eat. If they are eating something that contains a lot of carotinoids then their flesh turns orange. obviously a chrome fish would not be a spawner, but many times steelhead in their ocean color don't have visible spots.

    How are you differentiating steelhead and "sea run rainbows"?

    If you are ever lucky enough to see one of these sea run rainbows you will not mistake them for a steelhead..... The fish on my signiture is a late fall October Kvichak rainbow that is in all likelyhood a lake run steelhead.... Sea Run Rainbows look just like their cousins in the river in shape while steelhead are very topedo shaped, also the spots are very different between the two.... The only steelhead that I have ever caught that had white meat where ones that where in spawning condition.....

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    Default Examples......

    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    The coloration of rainbow trout/steelheads flesh depends on what they eat. If they are eating something that contains a lot of carotinoids then their flesh turns orange. obviously a chrome fish would not be a spawner, but many times steelhead in their ocean color don't have visible spots.

    How are you differentiating steelhead and "sea run rainbows"?

    Steelhead..

    Lake Run Rainbow... Sea run rainbows look the same... The reason I knew the fish caught at the mouth of the Kenai by dipnetters was a sea run fish was it had sea lice and was caught in brackish water.

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    Ummm....Steelhead are sea-run rainbow trout.? True rainbows do not enter saltwater. I am willing to bet the fish in question was a steelhead.

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    Sea-Run Rainbows that aren't Steelhead? Sounds funny to me...I'd like to see and article about those...

    Fish On!
    You know your not catching any fish when you start talking about the weather...


    http://www.alaskansalmonslayers.com/

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    Member garnede's Avatar
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    Due to the coloration and total lack of spots I am fairly cerian it is either a red or a chum, unfortunatly I did not have my camera with me. I could take pictures of the steaks in the freezer if that would help.
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

    http://wouldieatitagainfoodblog.blogspot.com/

  18. #18
    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default Enough already...... Do a little research before you are so critial....

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcox View Post
    Sea-Run Rainbows that aren't Steelhead? Sounds funny to me...I'd like to see and article about those...

    Fish On!

    The terms “rainbow trout” and “resident rainbow trout” are often used to identify nonanadromous forms of
    O. mykiss. This convention is confusing and technically inaccurate because “rainbow trout” is the common name of the biological species O. mykiss, and the term “resident,” used in this sense, ignores other, non-anadromous life-history forms and migratory behaviors. In this document, the term “rainbow trout” refers to the biological species O. mykiss regardless of life history, and the different life-history forms are referred to as anadromous (or steelhead), potamodromous, or resident, depending on their migratory behavior (or lack thereof in the case of residents). The term “nonanadromous” is used to refer collectively to all life-history types other than anadromous.
    Steelhead are rainbows... Rainbows have varies forms with a very plastic life history... There are sea run rainbows that are near coastal that are not steelhead... In Kamchatcka Russi there are five known forms of rainbows...

    Five variations of life strategies, or adaptive norms, of Kamchatkan Parasalmo (Oncorhynchus) mykiss are identified for the first time on the basis of scale morphology. They belong to two basic types: a resident (riverine) type, and a migratory type, which consists of typically-anadromous, anadromous (including the "half-pounder" stage), estuary, and river-estuary life strategies. The migratory type varies greatly, depending on the length of migration routes and the length of time spent at sea prior to sexual maturation. The diversity of phenotypic variations with different life strategies is the expression of individual changeability. The ratio and frequency of phenotypic variations with different life strategies are not uniform throughout the range, and are determined by specific living conditions in different rivers. A key is proposed to determine the scale types and the life strategy variations with which they correspond.
    http://www.wildsalmoncenter.org/prog...ect_report.php

    A extensive telemetry study was done on the Middle and Upper Kenai.. Little in known about the populations below Knapptown rapids... Additionally, Steelhead have been identified at weirs on both Funny R and Soldotna Cr... ADFG didn't actknowledge for years that there where wild steelhead in the Kenai as they where thought to be strays and or seeded by Crooked Cr hatchery production... The Kenai has 3 known forms of rainbows it is likely they have an river-estuary form just like dolly varden.

  19. #19
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    According to ADF&G a steelhead is a rainbow trout that has spent part of its life in the sea.
    http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/not...sh/steelhd.php
    That is the definition I was using.

    Back to the original question. If you are sure it was not a trout then I guess it was probably a jack chum. Chum can be very difficult to distinguish from reds it full sea color. Many of the individual fish will have colorations that very from the standard even to the point of overlaping.

  20. #20
    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default Key feature between Chum and Sockeye...

    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    According to ADF&G a steelhead is a rainbow trout that has spent part of its life in the sea.
    http://www.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/not...sh/steelhd.php
    That is the definition I was using.

    Back to the original question. If you are sure it was not a trout then I guess it was probably a jack chum. Chum can be very difficult to distinguish from reds it full sea color. Many of the individual fish will have colorations that very from the standard even to the point of overlaping.
    Once you have compared the two together they are easy to tell apart... Chum have a large pupil, very course gill rakes, and typically have faint bars or stripe's even when very fresh from the ocean... Sockeye have very fine neat scales, typically much smaller then chums, and very fine gill rakers... Alsom it is very rare for a chum to be a jack, in fack very rare they they mature before age 0.3.

    Given that chum are very rare in Kenai and Kasilof it is way early for chum that would normally show up in mid-July, and only about 2% of any given run would be 0.2 (jack), I believe the fish in question to not be a chum.

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