ballistics type questions
I went out shooting today and at 50 yards I was 10 inches high. I am shooting 50 cal. with balls and maxi-balls 80 grains of black powder.
My question is...
1)How much, if any difference does it make to add 20 more grains of powder in relation to elevation?
2)Should I be close to zero at 100 yards with the 10 inches high at 50?
3) What yardage do most folks zero out at?
I do not intend to ever shoot over 100 yards and prefer closer if possible.
I do intend to shoot again, just wanting to get the brain going.
Coincidentally, the two 50's that I shoot most are both loaded with 80 grains of 3f Goex and patched round balls, so my info should help. I sight both to hit dead on at 75 yards. That puts them half an inch to an inch high at 50 and about 2-3" low at 100. Not sure beyond that, because I just don't shoot that far. That sighting works best for me, and leaves me dead on at 50 and only slightly high at 25 when I'm using 30 grains of the same powder for reduced velocity small game loads.
Originally Posted by Burke
I'm not sure you'd see any difference in POI at 50 with 20 grains more powder, but it would probably eliminate some drop at 100. My routine is to try different powder/patch/ball combos till I get the one that groups best, then worry about sighting in. That 75 yard zero gives me more or less "point blank" aiming all the way out to 100 yards.
On the conicals, I've been shooting 80 grains behind a couple of different conicals just to see what's going on with the RB sight-in. POI is the same at 50, but they're both an inch or two low at 75 and more like 6-8" low at 100. If I was going to hunt with the conicals, I might resight for the same 75 yard zero, recognizing that it would be hitting a little higher than an RB at 50 and somewhere around 4" low at 100. Recoil is substantially more than with RBs, but still wouldn't be objectionable pushing the conical load up to 100. If I was real lucky, doing that would bring the trajectory more in line with the RBs and I wouldn't have to touch the sights. Hmmm. Gotta check that out. Thanks for another excuse to shoot!
I'm betting that if you're 10" high at 50, you're about a bazillion high at 100 yards, however.
Thanks for the info...so I have under estimated the abilities of this firearm. I thought there might be considerable drop at 100 yards.
I like the idea of zero at 75 yards.
Do you hunt with the RB? Have you tried the new Power bullets?
Where can I get more caps?
I do about 90% of my hunting with RBs. I've only ever recovered one from a deer after shattering the spine on a neck shot. Come to think of it, that was a 54 rather than a 50. The shot was at a paced-off 55 yards, and I was frankly surprised that it didn't penetrate completely. I've never recovered an RB in any caliber from broadside lung shots. Through and through, always.
Originally Posted by Burke
If I'm going for bigger game than deer, I usually go up the diameter scale. I've got a couple of 54 cals and four 58 cals that I use mostly for deer because I really like them. The 58 would be my pick for moose, though. Heck, I've even got a 75 cal, but it's a smoothbore and I'm still working out the loads.
I get my caps from a local sporting goods store. Have you checked with Great Northern Guns in Anchorage to see if they have caps? They're the major supplier of real black powder in your area, and it's hard to imagine that they'd be out of caps.
I called Great Northern Guns awhile back and they were out. I will go in to Anchorage soon to check again.
Why do you prefer the RB for hunting? Tradition or better performance?
I was thinking of using the 50 cal (thats all I have for muzzle loader) for moose this year....would you say that was a bad idea?
I think the only reason I use RB so much for hunting is that I shoot them so much in practice. They're easier to cast if I'm casting and cheaper to buy if I'm buying. So far they've been deadly on everything I've shot, but I'm also limiting myself to broadside lung shots. If I was more inclined to take angling shots, I'd probably have started relying on conicals a long time ago. If I was inclined to shoot beyond 100 yards or if I was taking on larger game with smaller calibers, I'd also be using conicals. As it is, when I move up from deer to moose or elk, I just grab a larger caliber gun with RBs. I'm kinda looking forward to smacking something with a 75 caliber RB from my smoothbore Brown Bess this fall.
Originally Posted by Burke
I shoot a lot of conicals informally from my faster twist guns, but just haven't got around to shooting game with them. Come to think of it, up till recently all but a couple of my muzzleloaders have slow twist barrels, so RBs were required if I was to hunt with them. I recently picked up 3 more with faster twists, so I might take game with conicals this year.
If I was taking on moose with a 50 cal as you plan, I'd most certainly use a conical, but a heavy all-lead version rather than a lighter sabot or even a powerbelt. I just want a great big chunk of lead weighing at least 400 grains if I'm shooting big game with a "small" caliber like a 50. Others here have had perfectly fine results using other styles and weights of 50 cal conicals on moose, but I'm the one punching the keyboard at the moment. Hopefully some of them will chime in and share their experiences.
BB as always you are saying what I am thinking. If you are using a smaller caliber rifle, a flying brick is always a good choice. I used a No Excuses conical on a moose last fall and they worked WONDERFULLY!!! Very accurate bullet out of my gun also. There was one shot that went through the lung and didnt stop until it hit the oppisite shoulder- and that was at 110 yards. Don't underestimate that smokepole. There is way more power there than you think.
As far as RB's, bigger caliber guns are the ticket. I got my hands on a very nice used 58cal kodiak (side by side by pedersoli) before I left and I was in the process of working up an RB load for it, but ran out of time. I was using a 570 ball, but was blowing out all thickness of patches. Switching to a 562 ball should do the trick, I hope. We will see. Have fun, but be careful- it is VERY ADDICTIVE!!!
BrownBear...this is making good sense. I try very hard to shoot broadside double lung shots at up close and personal ranges. I have been hunting primarily with a bow for the past 10 years and feel that the application is similar.
I am shooting a Hawkin, and my understanding is the 1:48 twist is one in which is in the middle of slow and fast. Supposedly to enable the gun to utilize both RB and conicals. I have shot mostly RB, probably 5/7 to 1 over conical for the same reason...price and availability. The shots are all staying in the same group with either bullet so far. I have not shot the sabots or powerbelts at all.
So if I stick to the close, broadside shots my current gun (50 cal Hawkins open sights) for moose, the conicals will be best correct?
Dead moose, for sure! Moose are actually pretty easy to kill when a bullet finds the vitals, though sometimes it takes them a little while to realize their dead. It only gets tough if you're angling the shots and have to penetrate a lot of muscle and bone or paunch to reach the vitals.
Originally Posted by Burke
My experience with conicals in 50 cal 1:48 barrels is that accuracy is excellent up through at least 400+ grain bullets, along the lines of the TC Maxi. Others have experimented with conicals even heavier with mixed results. If they get too much longer you have to go to a faster twist to stabilize them, at the cost of higher speed accuracy when using RBs. I also get excellent accuracy from full speed RBs in 1:48, but with faster twists it starts to fall off once you pass 60 or 70 grains.
BTW- If you're going to cast your own, look into the Lyman Great Plains bullet in 50 cal. It's very similar to the Hornady Great Plains, and both are by far the most accurate and most deadly I've personally shot.
If you have accuracy issues with any all-lead conicals, try putting a lubed felt wad between the powder and the bullet. They're available commercially for pennies apiece, or you can make your own from all-wool felt.
If you're not getting paid for product placement you should be.
Originally Posted by jjzzshen