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Thread: Russian river flies and 3/8" gap

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    Member ChuckD's Avatar
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    Default Russian river flies and 3/8" gap

    I'm going back to the Kenai for some reds this evening (as soon as my working wife is off work) and measured the russian river flies I have.
    They are exactly 3/8" gap (from point to shank) as it says in the regs.
    Thinking back there was a guy on a fly pole with a large hook and just a piece of yarn just slaying these things. He let all but one or two go, but I'm sure his hook gap was larger than my russian fly because we got tangled once. (He wouldn't tell me what he was using so I just tangled us so I could see...Just kidding)
    Am I reading the regs wrong? I have some 4-0 hooks that are way larger than 3/8" that could be rigged up but I don't want to be a illegal, sorry, undocumented fisher
    Or since I'm still a noob, are there larger hooks that still close with a 3/8" gap? If so, which ones are they? Are they better? Do I need to stop on my way down to pick some up?

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    Member ADUKHNT's Avatar
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    I made the run last night and had a blast, it did not see that crowded and there were plenty of fish moving by. This was my first trip to the Russian. I too looked at the hook reg and I think the only choice is the Russian river fly size. I learned quickly last night that technique had much more to do with catching the fish than the hook. I watch several people absolutely slay fish with the same flies I was using. I would not worry about buying too many flies since at least at the place I was there were plenty of flies stuck on rocks, just lying on the bank and between two fish I caught I collected seven flies! I did run low on weights so bring plenty. Some nice Air Force guy gave me some after he and his family caught there limits. There are some good sized fish running that will tear up some tackle, especially if foul hooked. Have fun and don't forget your polarized glasses. The only not fun part is the road construction near Summit Lake Lodge, they are re-paving and have it down to one lane for a few miles plan to spend a good 20 minutes or more there.

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    Member chumstik's Avatar
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    3/8" gap only in the "Fly-Fishing Only" zone from the Russian River Falls down to Jim's Landing on the Kenai (look at the map in the ADF&G sport fish reg book). Downstream of there (i.e., Bing's Landing, etc.) you can use a larger hook (such as a 3/0 Gamma) and fish with yarn flies. But no doubt there are some pinheads not following the regs ... last year I saw a guy tossing a Vibrax down there

    Apparently Gamakatsu does make a hook that has a 3/8" gap ... not sure where to find these, but they would probably be a lot better than the cheap "Coho flies" that dull quickly (resulting in a lot of lost fish). On that note, be wary of using flies found on the rocks, etc. for ths same reason.

    Also -- try using the slinky weights or the pencil weights. Maybe a little more expensive, but guarantee you won't snag up as much and lose so many rigs. If you're using the pencil weights (lead in a rubber sleeve), tie a piece of line tight around the rubber core to keep the lead from slipping out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chumstik View Post
    3/8" gap only in the "Fly-Fishing Only" zone from the Russian River Falls down to Jim's Landing on the Kenai (look at the map in the ADF&G sport fish reg book). Downstream of there (i.e., Bing's Landing, etc.) you can use a larger hook (such as a 3/0 Gamma) and fish with yarn flies. But no doubt there are some pinheads not following the regs ... last year I saw a guy tossing a Vibrax down there
    Fly Fishing Only Zone ends at the powerline below guardrail....NOT Jims Landing.....

    Maybe the "pinheads" actually understood the regs, eh?

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/Stati...al/SCkenai.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    Fly Fishing Only Zone ends at the powerline below guardrail....NOT Jims Landing.....

    Maybe the "pinheads" actually understood the regs, eh?

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/Stati...al/SCkenai.pdf
    The "pinheads" were at the mouth of the Russian River ... which I am pretty certain is in the FF only zone ... do you have any purpose other than to get on here and try to make other people look stupid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chumstik View Post
    The "pinheads" were at the mouth of the Russian River ... which I am pretty certain is in the FF only zone ... do you have any purpose other than to get on here and try to make other people look stupid?

    I posted to correct some wrong information......People who are stupid don't need my help in showing their ignorance.....



    ....And your welcome......

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    As I stated, chum posted some seriously wrong info that put the Fly Fishing Only boundary miles from where it actually is. Folks come here for facts, not fiction. I simply pointed out the error...He opted to get his panties in a bunch....


    If people wanna act like experts, and pretend to know what they are talking about...They can have at it....But some folks will call 'em on it.....


    As to Gamakatsu Russian River hooks....Kenai Cache had 'em in stock the other day......
    Last edited by Daveinthebush; 06-25-2009 at 14:00. Reason: Correct for removed post

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    Default hooks and sinkers

    Both Mustad and Gamakatsu sell hooks designated for the Russian River fly.

    The Gama hooks are actually marked "Russian River" on the package. The Gama hooks are expensive - around $30 or so a hundred. I have heard they sell them in the PX - I ordered mine on line. I have had a number of the points break completely off leave only the shank but I think my batch is defective.

    Army Navy on 4th downtown sell the Mustad hooks. As I recall they are about $16 a hundred. While they are not as sharp the Mustad hooks have a bigger barb which may help hold the fish better. I sharped them more myself and they seem to stay sharp.

    I can find the stock numbers on these hooks if anyone needs them,

    I've also used 2/0 and 3/0 premium hooks of several premium brands and bent them to meet the 3/8" gap rule. I really haven't seen a lot of difference in fish caught however.

    Using yarn flies is apparently legal BUT they must be constructed in the same manner as a standard fly according to the definition of a "fly" in the regs. Tying the yarn onto the line or attaching it in the loop of an egg loop is not legal as I read it. I run a couple of strands of yarn through the eye of the hook and the tie it off with thread right behind the eye like a standard fly This make a very durable legal fly that also catches fish. The Gama hooks have a very small eye; about one strand of yarn is all that will go through while the large Mustad hooks will allow two strand.

    I've been using split shot for years and just don't have a problem with it snagging the bottom. The trick is to use just enough weight where you only bump the bottom occasionally - not drag the weights. If you hang up the weights you are using too much weight or are just in a bad spot. This year I'm using 2 #3 split shot below the mouth of the Russian. In a year with high water I've use 2 or 3 #2s. I carry some #4 shot for fine tuning.

    I also use a very heavy leader - 20 to 30 lb test. It signifcantly cuts down on the number of snagged fish and makes it easier to pull a bottom snag free. I seldom lose a fly to either fish or the bottom. I find I usually catch more fish then the people around me so using the heavy leader does not seem to be much of a handicap.


    Quote Originally Posted by chumstik View Post
    3/8" gap only in the "Fly-Fishing Only" zone from the Russian River Falls down to Jim's Landing on the Kenai ...

    Apparently Gamakatsu does make a hook that has a 3/8" gap ... not sure where to find these, but they would probably be a lot better than the cheap "Coho flies" that dull quickly (resulting in a lot of lost fish). On that note, be wary of using flies found on the rocks, etc. for ths same reason.

    Also -- try using the slinky weights or the pencil weights. Maybe a little more expensive, but guarantee you won't snag up as much and lose so many rigs. If you're using the pencil weights (lead in a rubber sleeve), tie a piece of line tight around the rubber core to keep the lead from slipping out.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Premium Member Wyo2AK's Avatar
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    Chuck,

    If you're above Skilak Lake and below Kenai Lake, it's single hook, 3/8" hook gap.

    Page 50 (upper right)
    INCLUSIVE WATERS: the mainstream kenai river, from waters of skilak lake within 1/2 mile radius of river inlet upstream to the sterling highway bridge at the outlet of kenai lake, including the russian river drainage.

    Third bullet:
    Only one unbaited, single-hook, artifical lure is allow year-round. The gap between the point and shank must be 3/8" or less.

    It doesn't matter if you're in the flyfishing only zone or not, or if you're above or below Bings or if you're below the Powerline - if you're on the upper Kenai - one hook, 3/8" hook gap. Doesn't necessarily have to be a fly, but anyone using a big gamma above skilak either doesn't know better or doesn't care.

    these regulation arguments are ridiculous -the guy just asked a question whether he could use a big octopus hook.
    Last edited by Wyo2AK; 06-25-2009 at 13:59. Reason: spelling
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyo2AK View Post
    these regulation arguments are ridiculous -the guy just asked a question whether he could use a big octopus hook.
    Nice to see I wasn't the only one who caught on. Anywho, back to the topic at hand.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Default correct English

    Hippie-

    Try "you're" or "you are" - "your" is the possesive form of the pronoun you.

    You are welcome. I always to help others.



    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    I posted to correct some wrong information......People who are stupid don't need my help in showing their ignorance.....

    ....And your welcome......
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyo2AK View Post
    Chuck,

    these regulation arguments are ridiculous -the guy just asked a question whether he could use a big octopus hook.
    Well ... isn't that AK fishing regs in a nutshell? One guys asks a simple question and gets three people with six different opinions arguing on what the "right" answer is??

    Anyway -- my apologies to the original posters on the misinformation. I was in a rush and hence suggested looking at the map in the regs book.

    Enough said --

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    Default Got it!

    I just saw AlaskaChuck and he squared me away.
    Apologies for starting any arguments with the question. It's just that I don't want to be doing something illegal.
    Dere be reasons for dem' rulz'!!
    Should be leaving soon. Geez, my wife and her job I told her I need to go fishing

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    When in doubt ask more people LOL. If you have any questions about this still chuck call AF&g on rasberry road. You have my number too so call me if you still have questions
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    We bought some of the Russian river flies and I was very unimpressed with them. Hooked 5 fish with them and lost them all. 2 bent hooks and 3 broken hooks. Made up some rigs with the Gamakatsu hooks designed with the 3/8" specialty and some yarn and we killed them. Went down Tuesday afternoon and started fishing at 4. My buddy and I were back at the truck by 10 with our 6 apiece. Not too bad for our first time. Hooked lots of fish but it took awhile to learn how the system works.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyo2AK View Post
    Chuck,

    If you're above Skilak Lake and below Kenai Lake, it's single hook, 3/8" hook gap.

    Page 50 (upper right)
    INCLUSIVE WATERS: the mainstream kenai river, from waters of skilak lake within 1/2 mile radius of river inlet upstream to the sterling highway bridge at the outlet of kenai lake, including the russian river drainage.

    Third bullet:
    Only one unbaited, single-hook, artifical lure is allow year-round. The gap between the point and shank must be 3/8" or less.

    It doesn't matter if you're in the flyfishing only zone or not, or if you're above or below Bings or if you're below the Powerline - if you're on the upper Kenai - one hook, 3/8" hook gap. Doesn't necessarily have to be a fly, but anyone using a big gamma above skilak either doesn't know better or doesn't care.

    these regulation arguments are ridiculous -the guy just asked a question whether he could use a big octopus hook.
    One problem though Bings is below skilak...
    It ain't about the # of pounds of meat we bring back, nor about how much we spent to go do it. Its about seeing what no one else sees.

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    Default Flames

    Guys enough of the Flaming. Lets stik to the topic.

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    Default Have made 4/0 3/" for Gulkana King Fly fishing waters...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckD View Post
    I'm going back to the Kenai for some reds this evening (as soon as my working wife is off work) and measured the russian river flies I have.
    They are exactly 3/8" gap (from point to shank) as it says in the regs.
    Thinking back there was a guy on a fly pole with a large hook and just a piece of yarn just slaying these things. He let all but one or two go, but I'm sure his hook gap was larger than my russian fly because we got tangled once. (He wouldn't tell me what he was using so I just tangled us so I could see...Just kidding)
    Am I reading the regs wrong? I have some 4-0 hooks that are way larger than 3/8" that could be rigged up but I don't want to be a illegal, sorry, undocumented fisher
    Or since I'm still a noob, are there larger hooks that still close with a 3/8" gap? If so, which ones are they? Are they better? Do I need to stop on my way down to pick some up?

    My first season guiding we rigged 4/0 mustads by bending them into circle hooks at 3/8 hook gap... Works terrific....

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    Default modified hooks for flys

    I've played a lot with bending various hooks to meet the 3/8" gap rule. Besides the gap requirment the gage wire to keep the hooks from bending / straightening out is a must. The Mustad and Gama hooks are actually sold as a size 2 hook - I'm not certain how hook size is determined - but the wire gage is more like a 2/0 or 3/0 depending on brand.

    The way the "U" turn where the hank is bent around to the point is also somewhat unique. Rather than a circular radius it is bend to a sharper and on the point end - the shank end of the curve is a lesser radius like it almost pre-bend. This design also adds to the strength of the hook.

    While the long shank is nice for the traditional hair based flys with yarn you can use a short shank hook as mentioned and have excellent success.

    Late in the season is a good time to try out gear. The humped red males are very aggrssive toward bright colored fly and they still put up quite a fight - weak hooks straighten out and lines and rods break.


    Quote Originally Posted by TYNMON View Post
    My first season guiding we rigged 4/0 mustads by bending them into circle hooks at 3/8 hook gap... Works terrific....
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Member Ak_Barbarian's Avatar
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    Wink

    alrite guys! take your arguments to the side line and figure out your gaps because FISH ON!! FISH ON!!!

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