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Thread: I say Grow 'em & move them...

  1. #1
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    Default I say Grow 'em & move them...

    or give them to Beans to raise to slaughter....

    http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=10566367

    But yeah, PETA phreaks/bunnie huggers need to quit taking "orphaned" moose calves...there are a lot of hungry bears in the Anchorage bowl that are starving! Them poor poor carnivores...

  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    They should just take them for exercise along the Campbell creek trail system. Perhaps then the bears would eat the calves rather than the joggers.

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    Default But on a more serious note....

    There is nothing new here. In the past orphaned moose calves have been raised in Alaska and used to start new herds like in Cordova where they have taken 4500+ moose that wouldn't have been there except for the transplanting of orphans from the Anchorage area. That is a lot of meat and $$ for those in the area. Fish and Game should be charged for wanton waste when they don't even give these calves a chance. So they don't want more moose in Anchorage. OK, I understand that, but Unit 13 and other areas do need more. Just because they are in the wrong place does not require their disposal. Heck the oil is in the wrong place on the slope and we worked that out. There are people and organizations that are willing to take on this task but certain persons in the ADFG believe these are the "Kings deer" and no one else is qualified to handle them. BS. It is and has been done for a long time, even before they got their degrees.

    Part of the problem is that ADFG has no budget item to raise calves and the ZOO can handle only so many....very few. OH MY WHAT TO DO? There are 90% ready and willing parties in the private sector that have high fenced property, Vets on standby, and more than willing volunteers to deal with the calves until the bears go to sleep and the calves can be released at the direction of ADFG. It can be done again with a little cooperation. Transportation to the release site is assurred. Frankly moose especially moose calves are made for good PR for those on the right side of this. Thanks to the Governor for saveing a few of these potential herd suplements from a sure death. We can, if allowed, take it from here. Thanks for reading,
    Mudtk

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    mudtk, sorry but it is a huge waste of money and resources to try and raise a few orphans. Especially considering that many are not orphans at all! Simply leave the calves alone folks.

    You can't just drop moose into a farm environment then release them back into the wild in an area with struggling moose populations. The danger of spreading domestic disease is substantial and could completely wipe out the ungulates in an entire region. The moose would have to be carefully screened health wise and qurantined in a controlled location for months prior to release. It all costs money and someone is going to have to foot the bill. The questions are simple. Is it worth sacrificing other programs so that a few moose calves survive? Is it likely that the impact of a few moose released back into the wild will have a significant impact on that areas population? I doubt it. Then you still have to figure out what the likely hood of these very expensive semi domestic moose actually surviving in the wild.

    I would rather see fish and feathers spend that money on habitat studies to see why the existing population is struggeling.

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    Default Sorry LuJon but you are misinformed

    I walked though the blood of of the mother of the supposed orphans so that argument does not carry any water. I did hear about the disease worry as I looked at two healthy yearlings at Tom Williams farm. What a crock. Whom do you get your information from? This has been done successfully and will be done again.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudtk View Post
    I walked though the blood of of the mother of the supposed orphans so that argument does not carry any water. I did hear about the disease worry as I looked at two healthy yearlings at Tom Williams farm. What a crock. Whom do you get your information from? This has been done successfully and will be done again.
    I worked at the musk ox farm in palmer as a teen. I have seen sick animals from things as simple as pigeons carrying pathogens from one farm water tank to another. I have read reports regarding the bison reintroduction and other programs in the lesser 48 and around the world. There are a lot of studies out there on the effects of domestic diseases like brucelosis or TB in wild ungulate populations. They are frequently MUCH more suceptable to them!

    I am not questioning that you may have found a truly orphaned calf but that doesn't change the fact that cow moose frequently leave their new borns for extended periods of time while they get their legs under them. Many less informed people may take this as being "abandoned".

    The AMF has a proposal to build a dedicated moose calf rehab program, that is privately funded. This looks like an interesting project but still has some holes. They estimate a 30-100K first year budget based primarily on capitol construction cost of the pens and equipment. I think that is quite low, and will certainly edge more toward the 100 than the 30. If they can fund it then I am for it. The next hole in their plan is that ADF&G will have to find the suitable relocation area. To me this should be done ahead of time. You don't start raising animals in pens without knowint where you are going to release them. There is no way to estimate the transportation costs. Especially if you get off the road system! If it can be done on private funds then it gets my support, the package that I read on it doesn't convince me that they have a solid cradle to grave plan, though it is close.

    There is no way that the state is going to or should allow for private raising of moose with the expectation of reintroduction. Here is some examples of Domestic livestock diseases in wild ungulates.

    Adenoviral infection
    Foot and Mouth Disease in ungulates
    Big horns threatened by domestic sheep
    Bovine TB


    The state funds fish and game for the bennefit of the state as a whole. They do not need to be wasting state money to run a game farm to "maybe" produce 40 more harvestable animals in 30 years. Lastly, as I clearly stated above the Joe rancher option is just not an option at all. I certainly cant see basing your entire argument for it on your observations of 2 moose at the reindeer farm circus either.

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