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Thread: Disappointing Bullet Failure

  1. #1

    Default Disappointing Bullet Failure

    I know some one who just came back from Africa and was disappointed in the 270gr TSX out of his 375. As for the TSX as far as I am concerned is a bullet that if it was a person would have Schizoid Personality Disorder. I have had the same results he has had happen to him but on more than one occasion with the TSX on deer and hogs. Twice when using my 257Wby and once with my 300Wby.

    When the TSX came out I thought it would be the next best thing to sliced bread. Well, was I ever wrong!!! When it kills it kills well, but it is not consistent and there is no telling how many animals have been hit with the TSX and the bullet just slip on out the other side because it did not open up. It took three shots to bring down this Zebra.

    I do not use them any more because I work to hard on my hunts to get the game I am looking for to wonder if the bullet is going to do the job. I use the A-Frame and Partition on tough stuff and the Accubond on medium to large thin skinned and also the Sierra HPBT on small to medium thin skinned.

    The A-Frame or the Partition has to date never failed me, nor has the Accubond or Sierra HPBT but I use them on the appropriate animals.

    Here are some pictures of the schizophrenic nature of the TSX.

    Failed 270gr TSX out of a 375


    Successful 270gr TSX out of a 375
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  2. #2
    Member Eastwoods's Avatar
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    Default

    I have seen no need to use them, and have heard of these failures.

    IMHO Partitions are still King with standard velocity. But, for high velocity (3000 +), especially on extra tough game Swift A-Frames seems to be notorious.

    Thanks for the info.

  3. #3
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    BT, my friend, come in out of the sun and lay down for a bit, sir. I'm worried about you (I would paste a smiling face here but I don't know how to do that).

    I have no doubt in the truthfulness of your information. I, too, have heard the reports of X's and TSX's not opening. I suspect that it has happened, just like other premium bullets have failed from time to time. However, to summarily dismiss the TSX as an effective hunting bullet is ill advised. The 270grn TSX is what I shoot out of my .375H&H each fall, and it has always performed as it was designed to do. I've put them through three grizzly bears and several moose. In other calibers I've shot the 100's, 168's and 180 X's, XLC's and TSX's through deer, caribou, wolf, and black bear...and they have also performed as designed. I prefer to stalk and call, so most shots are at relatively closer ranges, and all bullets have passed through the animals. However, the bullet path from entrance to exit was always linear and the exit hole always larger, suggesting to me that there was expansion.

    The TSX is a dramatic improvement over the old X's. They are incredibly accurate. They foul MUCH less, and they seem to be more universally digestable by different calibers and rifles. With the old X's a rifle either liked them or not, and that was it...no amount of tweaking could change that initial rejection.

    I will admit that I lost one large wolf that I hit with a 270grn TSX while moose hunting, but I think that I pooched the shot. I know that I hit him, but could not find him or blood trail after hours and hours of three of us searching in the massive willow thicket where he vanished for cover. I concluded that failure to recover the animal was my shot failure rather than bullet failure, and I suspect that he expired somewhere far from where I shot him. That one still bothers me.

    I have to get to work. Where did you get the picture of the bullet that failed to open?

    Doc

  4. #4

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    Do you have any info on the range and POI of that bullet Beartooth? The accounts of failures I've heard seem to revolve around longish range and or non-magnum velocities. Just seems to need lots of jeewhiz to assure reliable expansion.

  5. #5

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    From the Reloader nest forum from a hunting event in Africa. I have dismissed them because of my own disappointments and choose not to use them. Let me say anyone who wants to use them that is fine. But I have dismissed them in my smaller calibers. I think I will come in out of the sun now.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  6. #6

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    In the politically correct world we live in today it is not always popular to talk about how something fails. Now I know the TSX is loved by many and it has killed game for me also. Because I dismiss the bullet in my 257wby or 300wby is just my choice and does not mean this is a bad bullet and should not be used.

    Of course as I said, it seems we can not talk about what has not met our expectations without being the bad guy or disapproved. I would use the TSX in a 375H&H, 375Rum or 375Wby, a 416Wby. Of course we can all smile and pretend that Barnes has the magical bullet and everyone should fall in line and accept it.

    Every bullet can fail and has at some time because so many factors are involved with what can happen when hunting and making a shot. So if anyone is offended or upset that I posted this thread then please ignore it and I will come in out of the Sun real soon.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  7. #7

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    Thanks for posting this to give us all something to chew on! While I'm sure the TSX is a fine bullet, I too left the Barnes camp after shooting a caribou dead through the heart at about 150 yards with my .30-06 and watching it run like nothing happened. Dropped it at about 250 yards with a shot through the neck, but when I opened it up and saw the small pinhole right through the heart, I wasn't too thrilled. Been shooting Swift A Frames since then in my .338, would probably use partitions in my .30-06.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Do you have any info on the range and POI of that bullet Beartooth? The accounts of failures I've heard seem to revolve around longish range and or non-magnum velocities. Just seems to need lots of jeewhiz to assure reliable expansion.
    If I recall it was 220yds.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  9. #9

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    MD,

    I think if you would have used a 300 WSM, that caribou would have dropped in it's tracks

  10. #10

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    BT,

    Now that you have come in from the sun, is there a chance that the tip of the bullet was deformed? it looks a if one side of the tip is pushed over which might have prevented it from opening?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    MD,

    I think if you would have used a 300 WSM, that caribou would have dropped in it's tracks
    You are one bad boy, now that was funny!!!! You truly are no good
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    BT,

    Now that you have come in from the sun, is there a chance that the tip of the bullet was deformed? it looks a if one side of the tip is pushed over which might have prevented it from opening?
    Could be, just don't know, all I know is it failed.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    MD,

    I think if you would have used a 300 WSM, that caribou would have dropped in it's tracks
    Actually no, with a WSM I would have run out of ammo since the shortfats only allow 2 in the mag I believe?? Here's why...

    I actually shot at him 5 times (4 more after the first shot, which I knew was a hit even tho he ran, I had to wait for openings as he was in a herd of about 70 bou). Hit him with three of the 4 followups, all but one of the hits should have really knocked him down where he stood. None really expanded to my liking, good thing I spined him with the last one.

    When we opened him up and I saw the entrance/exit holes I wasn't impressed with any of them, and the pinhole heart shot sealed it for me...no more Barnes XLC, which is what I was using at the time.

    With the WSM, and carrying without a round in the pipe, wouldn't I have been reloading after only 2 shots? Another reason I'm not a big shortfat guy.

    That was a good response tho MTR, I'll give ya that!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdhunter View Post
    Actually no, with a WSM I would have run out of ammo since the shortfats only allow 2 in the mag I believe?? Here's why...

    I actually shot at him 5 times (4 more after the first shot, which I knew was a hit even tho he ran, I had to wait for openings as he was in a herd of about 70 bou). Hit him with three of the 4 followups, all but one of the hits should have really knocked him down where he stood. None really expanded to my liking, good thing I spined him with the last one.

    When we opened him up and I saw the entrance/exit holes I wasn't impressed with any of them, and the pinhole heart shot sealed it for me...no more Barnes XLC, which is what I was using at the time.

    With the WSM, and carrying without a round in the pipe, wouldn't I have been reloading after only 2 shots? Another reason I'm not a big shortfat guy.

    That was a good response tho MTR, I'll give ya that!
    MD, if you that was a good reply, try this one...

    You are just an old fart dude

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    You are one bad boy, now that was funny!!!! You truly are no good
    BT,

    I tried to resist, I really, realy did. But I could just not help myself. I need counseling too

  16. #16

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    I have always had very good success with the X bullet and the TSX .. I do wish they would come out with the tipped TSX in things like 250 gr .358 dia ,270 gr .375 dia 250 and 285 gr .366 dia and 300 gr .416 and .458 bullets ......... I lament them not making the 400 gr .458 bullet any more and a friend sure does wish they would come back out with the 350 gr .423 dia bullet ..

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    MD, if you that was a good reply, try this one...

    You are just an old fart dude
    That could be...but I do notice, no response about the limited mag capacity for the shortfats.

  18. #18
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    Default seen it myself

    Back in 1998, I was hunting whitetail in a "shotgun only" part of the state. I found that the Federal "Barnes Expander" was very accurate in my H&R heavy barreled 12 gauge.
    I was in some very thick "stuff" up in my treestand, when at about 7:00 a.m. I heard leaves crunching directly below me. When I looked down through the expanded metal platform of my stand I saw antlers sway back and forth in the tangle of thorn apple branches. When he stepped one more time, I shot him down just off center angling forward slightly. He dropped right there, but the Barnes slug didn't exit. I found the slug in the brisket bone and meat.., NOT just under the hide.

    The distance from muzzle to deer was about 10' but between him and I was a thorn apple branch about 1/2" in diameter that I had cut off with the slug.

    The big hole in the point of that slug, I believe, was jambed closed before it ever reached that deer. The entrance hole was huge, I also believe this was because the bullet/slug was tumbling as it hit that deer.

    Barnes says that it's bullet opens because of hydraulic pressure. Now there's not a lot of that in a thorn apple tree branch in November. But I've also shot them into the end of blocks of fire wood and they all open.., go figure.

    It was nine years later before I ever shot another Barnes "X" type bullet, that one in .358 caliber at 225 grains..,on deer so far so good, but when I go for Moose I'll be shooting something that has a soft lead front end.

  19. #19
    Member AK_Stick's Avatar
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    I had a failure with a 300 grain Barnes X, out of a 375 H&H at less than 100 yds.

    Hit broadside, clipped a rib, through the lungs and out the other sides. Looked like a pencil had been driven through the animal. Not recovered.

    Second round smashed through the shoulders, not sure of any expansion, but did the job. Not recovered.

    Third round, finisher at close range (what can I say, it was my first moose, I was excited) through the heart, lungs, performed as advertised, found under skin on far side.

  20. #20
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    Default It's all good...

    BT, you know I appreciate your membership in our forum, and I've never thought of you as a "bad guy" (your word) in any manner. I think it takes guts to make a respectful statement that may not fly with a large number of other participants, and I admire your character for doing so. I'm not offended at all in your words, and I hope you aren't in mine.

    Like I said (we both said), every bullet can fail, and the TSX is no exception. How often a TSX fails is a difficult data point to acquire, as well as comparative failure rates by various bullets. Therefore, I guess it comes down to an informed choice. My choice is the TSX, and I sure like having choices in life.

    I would like hearing more about the TSX failure rate with your 257WBY, as you know I'm just starting to play around with that one, and it really performed on the black bear I shot last month.

    Doc

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