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Thread: Heavy or light in a carry gun......

  1. #1
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    Default Heavy or light in a carry gun......

    Back in my day we carried full sized 2 1/2# pistols. We were tougher back then, obviously, but kids today have to have the lightest, most scantilly clad pistol going. It has to be made of some space age wonder metal picked up from the fields around Roswell, New Mexico or it just isn't worth carrying. Is it becasue we want the exotic stuff or is it that we can't carry the weight?

    Either way, I want you to know I can still pack a 40 ounce pistol and my pant's don't fall off. A good gun belt and well designed holster can make a big difference. I own many 44 and 45 caliber guns that are about 2.5 pounds each they can be carried anywhere I can go afoot and the pistol is the least of my burdon. I don't understand how it is that a 25 year old, riding a four wheeler, has to have a 11 ounce pistol or he is weighted down!
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  2. #2

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    Old men are just made of tougher stuff. You get no argument from me about firearm weight. What cracks me up is buy a 10.5 oz. shooter made of freeze dried scrotums, and then put five 200 Gr. Corbon Hard cast .357 Magnums in the puppy, and reweigh it........?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Never had plastic and don't want it. I'm sure my gut weighs more than any gun I might want to carry and I would prefer to cut ten pounds there than gun life from light weight metals or plastics

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Yes I find it odd also that what should be strong healthy men in the prime of life canít handle the little heavier weight and would rather take a gun so light that it rips your hand off to shoot it. I see the same thing in rifles, if it is more than 6 or 7 pounds it rips their arms off somehow when they attempt to pack it. In my day most young guys packed surplus military bolt guns in full dress that were 10+ pounds all day long with little complaint.
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    The problem is many people spend more time reading comments on the internet and articles in gun rags about the ideal carry gun vs. actually going out and shooting them. This leads to the delusion that as small and light as possible is the over riding criteria for a carry gun.

    For the few folks that actually shoot enough to be proficient with a handgun to defend themselves from harms way, they realize that super light compact guns either have to be in smaller lighter recoiling calibers, or the bigger calibers simply aren't shot much if at all because they beat the heck out of you.

    As I don't want to get into bad breath range before I can effectively place my shots, I carry a gun that has a long enough barrel and enough weight to be shootable at longer ranges. That and the majority of the use of my sidearm is taking small game with reduced loads.

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    My problem is not so much the weight of the gun, it's the fact that my waist disappeared a few years ago. I can hardly keep my pants up, let alone my gun... This year I've got a vertical shoulder holster for my Blackhawk .45.

    Here's me on American Summit (outside of Eagle, NOT Eagle River) two years ago. I'm carrying a Super Redhawk .454.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomiswho View Post
    My problem is not so much the weight of the gun, it's the fact that my waist disappeared a few years ago. I can hardly keep my pants up, let alone my gun...

    LOL! Man, I feel your pain. It seems like I hit 40 and my ass started deflating. I'm considering putting suspender buttons on all of my trousers so I don't have to hitch'em up every few minutes.

    Sigh.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

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    I agree with you Murphy:

    There are at least, 3 reasons these people choose a Lightweight gun. (Right from the horse's mouth, too.).

    You see, if itís heavy they will leave it home.

    When they carry it, itís so light, they never know itís there, yet somehow, they hope to remember it if they need it.

    Also, their wives enjoy shooting them.

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    Man its good to find out that I may have a little of the tuff stuff bred into me. As a 20 something I pack around a rifle that weighs 12.5# and a Super Blackhawk that must wiegh around 2.75 with holster and ammo. My grandad always said that if a man gets to where he cant pack his rifle up the mountain he needs to find a new hobby, possibly something like stamp collecting, as he is either too old or too fat.

    Now granted I build superlight mountain rifles at work and they are fine,they keep my lights on and food in my belly, but it sure does seem that there is alot bigger demand for ultralight everything these days. If you go to any decent outdoor store you will not only see flyweight rifles, pistols and shotguns, but crazy light tents, packs, stoves, sleeping bags, fishing rods, and all manner of other things. Them boys a hunerd years ago must have been tougher than a keg of nails to do without all that stuff.

  10. #10

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    I like carrying my 17.4oz (unloaded) Bersa .380 because I don't have to think about it. I don't have to wear a gun belt, (or any belt for that matter) I don't have to use an expensive well designed holster, and I don't have to dress around the gun. I carry the gun IWB with a cheap Uncle Mikes holster or I carry it in my font pocket, easy peasy. Sometimes I'll carry my XD 40 3", which is also comfortable but not as comfortable as the Bersa, and I definitely need a belt with the XD.

    If I'm hiking it is more comfortable to carry the lighter gun, as carrying the heavier XD will cause more chafing when I'm hiking and climbing and bouncing around an uneven trail. Not that it's really significant, but if doing a multi-day hike with many miles and lots of elevation gain, every pound counts and a 1 pound gun is better than a 2 pound gun.

    I also like carrying my 5.5" Redhawk .44 when hunting, but that requires it's own seperate belt or it is too uncomfortable to have it on the same belt that is holding up my pants.

    What it boils down to most for me is convenience, a smaller lighter gun is more convenient than a heavier gun. At 17ish ounces it handles the recoil of the .380 acp quite well. Snappy but not at all unpleasant, can get quick follow up shots easily, and I can put a couple boxes through it in one sitting and not be sore or fatigued. Can't say the same about the 14.5oz .38 snub nose that I eventually sold, as even one box of ammo would make my hand sore.

    And yes, my wife can comfortably handle it as well. Which is a valid point because if I'm drinking any alcohol, the wife gets to carry for the evening.

  11. #11

    Default Murphy, are we talking open or CCW here

    Open I can't see much of a case for carrying a punishing pistola but for concealed the size becomes more of a factor. Smaller size leads into less weight and with a performance sized cartridge you kinda accept the punishment anyway.
    Carrying options for open allow much better management of the weight.
    That said, the only non-steel pistol I have just rides around in my truck, all my carry guns are steel.
    My wife does have a lightweight 44 Spec.
    Were they tougher back then - of course. They had to be to get done what neded to get done with what was available. Now with technology you don't have to be as tough to get the same thing done. I'm not convinced it is a good thing.
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    Last edited by Mike Echo; 06-11-2009 at 10:25. Reason: forgot the wifeys 44
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  12. #12

    Smile lots of choices...

    I think my first .44 was a Ruger Blackhawk in 1973 and I believe it had a 7.5 barrel. I sold it and bought a 6" S&W Mod. 29. Then I went through 4 different 4" S&W Mod. 29's and 629's, a 4 5/8 barreled Ruger, a 3" Mod. 29 and couple of 5" S&W 629 Classics. I had a gunsmith fit a slender 4" Mountain Revolver barrel to one of the 5" Classics. Then I ordered a set of beautiful cocobolo stocks from Craig Spegel. I have, after all these years, found the .44 magnum I have always wanted. I have an old Galco cross draw holster for it that is a pattern of the old Jackass Leathergoods holster and a Kramer Horsehide Scabbard. The 280 or 300 grain hardcasts at 1100 fps are plenty for me. If I ever decide to go bigger I will look at the 480 Ruger or a .45 Colt with the 5 shot cylinder from Hamilton Bowen or Gary Reeder. But for now, I have found my perfect packin trail gun and I will give it to one of my grandkids. I also think the S&W .44 or .45 Colt Mountain Revolver is the best idea S&W ever had for there .44 mag. or .45 Colt.

  13. #13

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    Dang it, now my feelings are hurt!

    Three factors come to mind when I concider a personal defence carry gun. #1. Am I confident that I can hit my target with great consistancy with my carry gun? #2. Am I confident that my carry gun has enough poop to get the job done? #3. Am I confident that my carry gun is going to function 100% of the time? The key word is confidence!

    My #1 all time favorite carry gun is my Glock 22 40 cal.. When loaded with 16 rounds it isn't a feather weight. The dang plastic thing does sound like a dart gun when dry fired but that noise goes away when I put bullets in it!

    I carry it in a Fobus paddle holster that tilts the muzzle a little towards the rear. That puts the gun snug agains my side just under my bottom rib. Almost any shirt or jacket conceals it and it feels real good there!

    Momma says I used to have a nice butt and no gut but now its a nice gut and no butt. So I too am an old fart going through the body repositioniong thing. However just cuz a feller is gettin old doesn't mean his packin gun has to be a 1911 or a vintage wheel gun does it? I tried packing my Blackhawk 41 mag that I kill deer with but the onliest place that I can figure to carry it and keep it concealed puts it a little out of reach and makes a sore spot that causes me to wince when I wipe. Sorry Murphy, I just aint that dedicated!

    In my safe is a mid 1980's 29-3 Elmer Keith commemortive that has had narry a bullet through it. I have been real tempted several times to start packing it in Elmer's honor. Its the only gun I have ever had that has been just for looking at. Should I change that? Huh? Should I?

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    You sure ain't a clone if you don't shoot it!!!!

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    Default As far as a hiking handgun for defense against wild animals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    ... many people spend more time reading comments on the internet and articles in gun rags about the ideal carry gun vs. actually going out and shooting them... This leads to the delusion that as small and light as possible is the over riding criteria for a carry gun..
    A stream of newcomers coming to Alaska, maybe starts hiking up rivers and decides to buy a handgun before really meeting a network of friends with similar interests. Paul H is on to something here. I came 8 years ago, as one of that stream of newcomers, without a military background but little experience in magnum revolvers or bolt action rifles. If I'd fished with experienced and older Alaskan friends first, my first handgun would have been a 48 oz this or that. As it happened, I went from spray to a handgun, at a time when it was easier to connect with information online. I'd also noticed my fellow cheechako fishing buddy was leaving his 48oz pistol at home (or at the tent) often. There's plenty of sensible interest in lightweight gear in hiking/backpacking circles, but it isn't apparent to some of us why a light handgun sacrifices key functional parameters in this application.

    I bought one of those "...space age wonder metal picked up from the fields around Roswell..." revolvers and have shot it regularly, but it's taken me some time to appreciate the wisdom of inertia in those 48oz alternatives-- for faster accuracy. The ideal barrel on the "next revolver" I watch for in that heavier category went from 4" to 5 1/2" last year. Lately, I've looked over a couple longer!

    All is not lost though, for those who still shop around Roswell. The 28oz saved in space age material revolvers, makes room for 5-10 oz each of handheld GPS, cellphone, iPod ...

    Interesting thread. Thanks.

  16. #16
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    Default Why not?

    Most of tne real tough old guys died off years ago. A good example is the first guys to scale McKinley (or whichever peak) a hundred years ago. No tianium, gore-tek, or any other space aged stuff. How many of today's climbers could do what they did with the stuff they had? Have any of today's tough guys even tried to duplicate the first climb?

    While I still carry a .500 S&W in a shoulder houster while fishing my 329 PD also has its place. As previously pointed out by other I'm much more likely to have the 26 oz wonder with me on a casual stroll- the X frame is just too much trouble to put on everytime I walk off the pavement. The 329 I can drop in my jacket or pants pocket and hardly notice that it is there. Even on walks around the trails in town it has a place while the .500 is out of the question.

    I remember making fun of an old guys well worn .25 auto many many years ago. As he pointed out to this then young kid with a new .357: "I'll have my .25 with me when I need it - your big gun will be back in your dresser drawer when you need it."
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    If there the guns of today existed "back when", all you "old timers" would likely be the very same your whining about. What gun nut doesn't like gadgets? Which of you wouldn't have loved to get a new whatchamecallit after reading about it in the new 1947 Field and Stream.

    How many of you still use the same Hoppes No 9, and not some new cleaning solvent on occasion? How many of you own DVD players, heck, forget all the above, your all posting on the Internet via your own personal computer.... Pot calling the kettle black?


    I respect you guys, but this attitude is a sore subject for me.


    Your tough for carrying a 2.5 lb pistol and a 9 lb rifle? What about those youngsters that carry a 6.5 lb M4, and a 140 round load out, 70 lb ruck, a dozen lbs of com and NV equipment, all while running through 140* desert with people trying to blow them up or shooting at them. I bet they like light weight anything, but as you suggest, they must be weak and not nearly as great as the older generation.

    What a sad and pathetic load of B.S. When my cousin comes back from the middle east this fall, maybe I could introduce him to some of you so you could tell him face to face what a puss he is for his choice in firearms.
    The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State.

  18. #18
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    Default Never said I was tough!

    I never said I was a tough old goat - but I still use Hoppes No 9 however I carry a 329 PD.

    I spent time in the desert in the middle east myself on a number of occasions - it sucks and I do respect the guys there. Actually 140 deg is stretching it a bit; the worse extreme to me was the 115- 120 temperatures with high humidity we got along the coast in Aug and Sept.

    I'll still challege anyone today to climb McKinley with the clothing and equipment the first guys had! And if I recall they even carried a Christmas tree up there. Those guys - I'd never include myself in the group - were TOUGH!


    Quote Originally Posted by bgreen View Post
    If there the guns of today existed "back when", all you "old timers" would likely be the very same your whining about. What gun nut doesn't like gadgets? Which of you wouldn't have loved to get a new whatchamecallit after reading about it in the new 1947 Field and Stream.

    How many of you still use the same Hoppes No 9, and not some new cleaning solvent on occasion? How many of you own DVD players, heck, forget all the above, your all posting on the Internet via your own personal computer.... Pot calling the kettle black?


    I respect you guys, but this attitude is a sore subject for me.


    Your tough for carrying a 2.5 lb pistol and a 9 lb rifle? What about those youngsters that carry a 6.5 lb M4, and a 140 round load out, 70 lb ruck, a dozen lbs of com and NV equipment, all while running through 140* desert with people trying to blow them up or shooting at them. I bet they like light weight anything, but as you suggest, they must be weak and not nearly as great as the older generation.

    What a sad and pathetic load of B.S. When my cousin comes back from the middle east this fall, maybe I could introduce him to some of you so you could tell him face to face what a puss he is for his choice in firearms.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  19. #19
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I still use Hoppes #9 and probably always will. I remember when I was a youngster we had to carry at least 400 rounds to the field no matter what gun we carried M-14,M-16 or M-60. Our pack and gear about equaled our body weight and I weighed 210#s then,pack and gear ran about 175#s for me. Out a week at a time and all mountains but only 100 to 110 degrees. If your cousin is like most vets I know he will say yep you old guys lead the way. As you said your cousin I would guess you never went so don't know.

  20. #20
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    Anyone carrying near body weight packs, in any temp or terrain, should appreciate every ounce they can shave off their load. Polymer and alloy frame firearms do just that. Your right though, there were some tough *********s back when, my grandfather was one of them, and there are probably less of them now, but just because someone chooses to stay current with technology doesn't make them less tough or deserving of the same respect.

    I too, still use Hoppes #9, but when some new chemical shows some promise of improvement I am willing to try it out. Whats wrong with that?

    I carry a light weight 44 mag, and a sub 7 lb 338 in the field, so by the above logic, I couldn't possibly be as tough as Murphy?
    The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State.

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