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Thread: base to ogive on nosler .358 250gr.?

  1. #1
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    Default base to ogive on nosler .358 250gr.?

    Just got off the phone with Nosler "Tech Department," and they couldn't give me the measurement from the base of their bullet to the ogive.

    Why..? well, I was told that the distance isn't the same, they vary a little.

    So I asked, "how does a fellow find out "approximately" what the measurement would be?"
    I was told that I could buy a box and measure them for myself, or that possibily... a request to engineering could be submitted.., "but you can't contact them directly."

    Funny, Mr Bill Hober, of Swift called me back (personally), and even went so far as to leave me his home phone number if I needed any more info. Yes, he did have the measurments.

    It "seems" like that would be a "need to know" number- the ogive location of your bullets.
    But, it seem to be a mystery at Nosler...

    Anyone happen to have a 250 grain nosler partition, in .358 cal. that could tell me where the ogive (approximately) contacts the lands..?

    Thanks
    Scott

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    Default

    I got a box sitting in front of me and best I can figure is .791

    Kinda hard to tell since the shoulder isnt all that abrupt.

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    Default

    Out of curiosity, why do you need to know?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    I got a box sitting in front of me and best I can figure is .791

    Kinda hard to tell since the shoulder isnt all that abrupt.
    I'm not in the position to do it myself at the moment, but I thought I'd pass along my own method for finding orgives. It's not a perfect solution, but gives me consistency. I just drop the bullet nose-first into the neck of a sized case, then measure to the base.

    Recognizing that the case neck is going to be a little smaller than bore, I'm actually measuring a little beyond the absolute orgive, but I'd rather have that than be too short. It works great for gentle slopes like Nosler, as well as steap ones like Hornady spires.

  5. #5

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    My take is a legal one they want (and this is for safty now) you to measure them for your self and not reload a OCL that was derived from calulations and not actual measurements.

    But this must be just to determine if you can load and fit them in your magazine? from tip to ogive their the same as their 225gr partitions and they fit all 358win/350rem/35whelen magazines that I know of. Its the accubond and b-tips that are too long for most short action magazines.

    As asked what else would you need to know this for? They my have done you a big favor but I am in the dark too.

  6. #6

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    I just measured 3 of them. They all measured .678" from the base to the ogive.

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    Default answer as to "need

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Out of curiosity, why do you need to know?

    Snyd,

    I'm sure others are wondering the same... "Why do you (I) need to know the distance from base to ogive ?"

    Here is the skinny on that.
    I have a Ruger #1
    Chambered in 35 Whelen
    My case trim length is 2.488"
    Distance from case mouth to lands .380"

    I have usually gotten my best accuracy with my rifles when loaded around .015 off the lands . Tighter than that could be a problem waiting to happen in the field in adverse conditions, but that is neither her nor there.

    A load in which the distance is greater than nessessary doesn't promote the rifles' ( in the ones I've been loading) accuracy abilities.

    Along with the "need" (want) to hug up close to the lands, is also the issue of neck tension, and the ability to get that bullet far enough into the neck to hold it straight to the bore... I usually like to have a caliber worth in the neck, in this case being that I'm shooting .358" diameter bullets, I'd like to have "around" .358" into the neck.
    It's just a standard I like to use when loading. Not always a reality, as with mt 300 Savage and it's squatty little neck.

    An example of what I'm trying to avoid is as such,

    Barnes 225 grain TSX= .660" base to ogive,
    subtract the distance mouth to lands of .377"
    leaves us with .283" of bullet shank in the neck
    Barnes recommends seating between .030 - .070 off the lands.
    At .072" off the lands in my rifle I can then get that desired "caliber" of .358 of bullet shank into the neck.
    I'd like to shoot a 250grain, that would allow me to "kiss" the lands if I wanted to, allowing me to work my back to a "sweet spot" of accuracy, while giving me at least .358" of bullet shank in the neck.

    Follow me?

    Now that is a LONG 225 grain bullet, Funny thing is the Hornady 250 is almost completely out of the case mouth before it reaches the lands.

    I'm simply trying to GREATLY reduce the "knevil" stunts in my rifles throat.


    Thanks for asking, Scott

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    Default

    Ah, gotcha. It's because you want to know how much bullet is left in the neck based on your case length and off the lands measurement. Thanks.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Ah, gotcha. It's because you want to know how much bullet is left in the neck based on your case length and off the lands measurement. Thanks.
    Yes, thanks Snyd, You're reading me loud and clear. I think a little research in this area "should" help me make some wise bullet selections, prior to shelling out the cash.
    Thanks, Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by 358wsm View Post
    Just got off the phone with Nosler "Tech Department," and they couldn't give me the measurement from the base of their bullet to the ogive.

    Why..? well, I was told that the distance isn't the same, they vary a little.

    So I asked, "how does a fellow find out "approximately" what the measurement would be?"
    I was told that I could buy a box and measure them for myself, or that possibily... a request to engineering could be submitted.., "but you can't contact them directly."

    Funny, Mr Bill Hober, of Swift called me back (personally), and even went so far as to leave me his home phone number if I needed any more info. Yes, he did have the measurments.

    It "seems" like that would be a "need to know" number- the ogive location of your bullets.
    But, it seem to be a mystery at Nosler...

    Anyone happen to have a 250 grain nosler partition, in .358 cal. that could tell me where the ogive (approximately) contacts the lands..?

    Thanks
    Scott
    Yes, Bill is a good guy and Swift a great company. I don't know the issue at Nosler, that was the tech department, huh? But, the 358 bullet contacts the lands at a diameter of .350" as that is the bore diameter. For whomever measures, take a caliper and measure around the ogive where it is .350",mark that point and then measure from there to the base. I too was having trouble figuring out why you need this dimension, I usually need the front half measurement, considering magazine length vs seating depth. This measurement is usually given from the full diameter to the base, which will be different from the ogive contact point to the base. Just in case you're wondering.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default I got a call from Nosler today

    Just wanted to let everyone know that I did get a return phone call from Nosler today..,
    I was suprised actually, but they did.

    I thought it was important to report this.., to their credit.


    Thanks for the responses,
    scott Murphy, as usual, notes a good technicality.

  12. #12

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    I didn't do the math but I guessing you have a very long throated chamber? The 250gr partition is one long bullet but better to measure than guess with expensive bullets.

    So now I am wondering do you realy just need a new barrel with a shorter throat (or rechambering) or is this a gun you need to throw 310gr bullets in as well?

    Just wondering the only long throated barrel I have is a new 22-hornet, but I am dailing it in with deeper seated bullets. The lands are 1.540" whish it was say .030" shorter for the same reasons you stated.

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    Conventional wisdom is that in general the closer your bullet is to the lands the more accurate your load will be - and this is frequently true, but...some chamberings can be very accurate even when not seated to be "close" to the lands. I guess what I am saying is "beauty is as beauty does" so that despite measurements and "conventional wisdom" what really matters is the final accuracy of the loaded round - assuming it is safe in all other aspects.

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    Default did some shootin' this morn'

    Well,

    After fully floating the barrel in my Ruger #1k-A, and replacing the Leupold Ultralight 3-9 (which "seems" to be internally problematic) with a little Nikon 2-7, I headed for the range this morning while the winds were calm. Just me, the good Lord, and some simple loads.

    My goal was to test one scope against the other.

    I launched some 250 grain Hornadys out over the vast chasm of my dear rifles freebore, moments later.., they entered the rifling of my 22" albeit, 1 in 12" rate of twist barrel. Soon they were on there way toward a target 100 yards away, which at one time served as a pizza box.

    After each shot I walked out to the target, wrote the number of that particular shot next to it's corresponding hole, and returned to the bench ready to give it another go.

    Now, that particular optic isn't what I'd use for finding my rigs accuracy potential, nor would I nessessarily choose that load recipe.
    However, I did learn a few things, and the education was relatively inexpensive.

    1. The leupold is going back.., again!
    This is frustrating, as I "just" got it back. Anybody else experienced this
    with their scope.., sent it back once and still not right?

    2. The first shot from a clean barrel doesn't print with the next 9, (I was
    shooting 10 between cleanings) but I still was able to determine that
    1 1/2" groups were MUCH better than I was able to do with the
    Leupold.

    3. I need more magnification, and will do so next session.

    Nope, I won't rebarrel. It's a Ruger Limited 35 Whelen. And "shphtr"
    makes a most important point.
    As for 310's Woodleighs, I'd love to try some, but I'm more inclined to think that I can get the 250 Nosler Partition and/or the great Swift 250 grain A-Frame to shoot minute-of-Moose heart at 300 yards.

    Thanks ,
    Scott

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