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Thread: Chitina Kings... catch and release.

  1. #1

    Default Chitina Kings... catch and release.

    I've always wondered about the projections that fish and game put out each year. They always seem to be off by a fairly large magnitude. This year is no different and the large king run they expected isn't there, so they are going to cut the king limit for the personal use dipnetters from 1 to 0.

    If you want a king, you better go this weekend. This goes into effect on Monday.

    http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/j...-netters-come/

    Honostly I'd rather see them meet their escapement goals than take home a king, so I'm not too upset about it. I wonder how this will be handled in the future if we are correctly assigned as subsistance users? Will they limit the commercial fishing more, or would it be too late since they get a head start on the fish before they come in the river?

  2. #2
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the heads-up. Will be there Monday or Tuesday, so I guess no kings for us. I'll be happy with a limit of reds if I can get 'em.

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    Default what a joke

    Just another fine example on how well the department of commercial fish and human management is doing managing our resources. They should be fired!

    We had ADCF&HM tell us (MAT valley AC) that the kings caught in the net suffer 80% mortality and they along with the AC voted to allow the dip netters to keep 5 kings.

    Again the commercial interests outweight we Alaskan's!

  4. #4

    Default

    If ADF@G has an escapement goal for Kings, how are they monitoring it? If the Miles Lake Sonar would be monitoring kings, wouldn't you think they would have the daily # on the website??? It's not there. They are only showing that they are counting Sockeyes. Makes me wonder.....???

  5. #5
    Member fshgde's Avatar
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    Default counting kings

    As I understand it fish and game manages kings by comparing preseason projection to actual counts of commercial fishermen, The also have test wheels up river of miles lake. The sonar can't tell difference between reds and kings. They also count kings on gulkana, way upstream.

  6. #6
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    Default Fish counter...Kings or Reds

    Hi
    At an annual meeting of the Chitina Dipnetters a couple years ago I asked if Fish and Game(the guy in charge of the Chitina Personnel Use fishery is usually there, plus a couple other Fish and Game people) had a fish counter that could tell the difference between a Kings and other Salmon and was told the one at Miles Lake could not but that technology was available. That seems like an obvious thing to get in to use. I mean right now its how many Kings are caught by the Commy fishers? Pretty weak tea it seems to me. We've hard numbers for escapement and allocation but no real numbers on the actual run!
    Another idea would be to have a fish counter at the upper end of the Dipnet Fishery which would give more accurate idea of when, for example, the bulk of surge of fish on a Supplemental Harvest Period are passing(or not) Mark Hem says he's very rarely seen the Supplemental Period match the actual surge from the 'extra' fish hit Chitina. Again it would seem more 'scientific' to time the heavier harvest to the actual 'extra' fish passing through at Chitina. Fish and Game seemed underwhelmed by these ideas. Maybe we need to 'encourage' them to take on such extra efforts. I can't see any argument against either the fish counter that would count Kings or a counter at the upper end of the Chitina Subdistrict. Other than it would be more work for Fish and Game.
    Maybe getting down to Chitina next week. I predict I'll return without a King for the third year in a row. It will hurt to net one though! or rather to have to let it go knowing the Commy fishers have already caught 5,000 plus! ouch!
    Paul Holland
    Board Member Chitina Dipnetters Association
    chitinadipnetters dot com

  7. #7
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    Angry What if you keep 'em?

    A couple years back, I erroneously forgot to clip my tails after fishing... STUPID I know. I was checked by Fish and Game and was fined a healthy $125 for my actions.

    I wonder what the fine would be for keeping the king? Perhaps it would be better to call it a "purchase price". If I were to go Safeway, a whole king would run close to $300 assuming $10/lb @ 30lbs. That sounds like a deal to me! It also sounds like civil disobedience.

    The fact that the commercial guys could still fish until a day or so ago is ridiculous! Every time I think I think about some well-to-do east coaster ro some person in some lah-dee-dah restraunt eating MY fish, I get perterbed to put it mildly.

    What say you?

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    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FairbanksBowHunter View Post
    A couple years back, I erroneously forgot to clip my tails after fishing... STUPID I know. I was checked by Fish and Game and was fined a healthy $125 for my actions.

    I wonder what the fine would be for keeping the king? Perhaps it would be better to call it a "purchase price". If I were to go Safeway, a whole king would run close to $300 assuming $10/lb @ 30lbs. That sounds like a deal to me! It also sounds like civil disobedience.

    The fact that the commercial guys could still fish until a day or so ago is ridiculous! Every time I think I think about some well-to-do east coaster ro some person in some lah-dee-dah restraunt eating MY fish, I get perterbed to put it mildly.

    What say you?
    I pretty much agree, although it doesn't have to be MY fish...if there is such a shortage, then stop EVERYONE eqaully from retaining kings. Seems simple enough to me.

  9. #9
    Member fshgde's Avatar
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    Default kings

    according to fish and game a nonresident has more of a right to catch and eat a king than you as a resident do , as they didn't stop king sport fishing on gulkana klutina tosnia rivers call Mark Somerville area management biologist 907 822-3309 ask him why nonresidents have more of a right to eat kings than you do. Maybe if we keep him talking he won't be able to make any more bad decisions. I have no problem giving up my king but all users need to give up retention of kings.
    Last edited by fshgde; 06-12-2009 at 20:08. Reason: hit send button to quick

  10. #10

    Default

    Perhaps because we are not generating any revenue for the State like the commercial fleet and nonresidents do. We are appreciating our God-given ability to harvest the resources He provided for us and the State has no take in the matter.

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    Angry Support the CDA!

    We just got back and caught two limits. Talked to several guys that turned back normal number of kings. We returned SIX kings unharmed, the same as normal. The only difference is that I didn't keep one this year. What an easy management tool for ADF&G, huh? Commercial guys miss some fish and our professional, well-paid, conscientious biologists limit us to ZERO kings. I have put my money where my mouth is and sent my check to CDA. Maybe they can return us to subsistence fisherman. (Hopefully without us having to meet some poverty criteria, or having to mail in a lottery ticket to get drawn for a king!)

  12. #12

    Default Support the CDA2

    Ditto. I sent in my check this year for the first time.

    Do the subsistence users even have to report the number of fish they catch?

    I've had the locals fish the same spot I go to, load up, and be on their way.

    Just because I'm white and born in Alaska before statehood and live on 7.5 acres on the outskirts of Anchorage, I can't keep the king the guy next to me does because he lives in Kenny Lake and came here last year from Arizona?

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    Member bigcox's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8fl View Post
    Just because I'm white and born in Alaska before statehood and live on 7.5 acres on the outskirts of Anchorage, I can't keep the king the guy next to me does because he lives in Kenny Lake and came here last year from Arizona?
    Isn't that an ignorant thing to say..."just because I'm white and born in Alaska before statehood and live on...."

    Here is a link about who can fish it, no where does it say anything about what race you are if you would like to participate in the fishery. In fact, there is a guy I know of that runs a fish wheel with several others who is african-american, with another in his group caucasian. I suggest you read up on your regs before making a stupid post like yours:

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/Static/management_areas/PDFs/GlennRegs08.pdf
    You know your not catching any fish when you start talking about the weather...


    http://www.alaskansalmonslayers.com/

  14. #14

    Default

    What I have run into in more than one season are local people with subsistence permits fishing downstream of the bridge with dipnets from shore and from boat, filling subsistence quotas including kings.

    The problem is local people with subsistence permits breaking the regulations. I know that my race has nothing to do with it if I choose to fish upriver of the bridge.

    As far as my sarcastic white comment, I'm blowing off a little steam after being accosted and threatened by a local drunk racist this year. I paid my $15/day to walk across Ahtna property.

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    Default

    Sour grapes.

    What the 25 reds you harvested weren't enough? If it was really about subsistence, you wouldn't care if you kept a king or not. It's ego, and sheer "I like Kings better".
    Why do you all think you "deserve" these fish? So your greed is more important that the resource huh? You'd rather complain and do illegal acts than eat reds? Whatever.

  16. #16

    Default

    I'd venture to guess that it isn't ego, it is frustration due to bad management created by a poor choice in "biological" estimations on the part of fish and game that is keeping us from a resource that we have historically harvested.

    Knee jerk biology, it sometimes pisses people off.

    I was ticked when they lowered the limit from 5 to 1. Now we are at 0 and the fish are obviously in the river in good numbers. Our family (3 households) go through a couple hundred salmon a year, and a 30-40 pound king goes a long way.

    If I had the time, I'd draft an emergency order requesting the board of fish to re-open the king season and allow us to keep our 1 king based on the numbers of kings being caught and released by dipnetters. I doubt it would pass though, with the weight of the commercial fisherman on the shoulders of the board of game. It would be nice to see them put on defense every once in a while.

    CDA, you guys have the ability to do this?

    The real good news here is that there is a strong king return, which bodes well for future years. That is the important aspect in all of this.

  17. #17

    Default No Sour Grapes

    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    Sour grapes.

    What the 25 reds you harvested weren't enough? If it was really about subsistence, you wouldn't care if you kept a king or not. It's ego, and sheer "I like Kings better".
    Why do you all think you "deserve" these fish? So your greed is more important that the resource huh? You'd rather complain and do illegal acts than eat reds? Whatever.
    I like reds just fine, and am thankful for them as well as the kings. I obey the laws, and appreciate the ability to feed not only my own family, but to fish for the disabled and seniors who cannot fish. One day my strength will be gone and I won't be making any more trips to the Copper, and I hope someone will remember my family, too.

    I apologize for the tone of my earlier post. I am frustrated by the bad decisions made by people in power who have incomplete information. I filled all the permits I fished this year with kings on the opener. According to all reports, there are normal amounts of kings being caught by dipnetters. I'd imagine that the fishwheels are doing fine as well.

    As far as whether or not we "deserve" the salmon, according to the Constitution of the State of Alaska:

    "Wherever occurring in their natural state, fish, wildlife, and waters are reserved to the people for common use." Article 8 Section 3

    Feeding your family through responsible harvest of our natural resources has gone on as long as people have lived here.

    I consider it a privilege. The Constitution makes it a right. Whether we "deserve" it or not is a moral issue.

    ~tr

  18. #18
    Member bigcox's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gr8fl View Post
    What I have run into in more than one season are local people with subsistence permits fishing downstream of the bridge with dipnets from shore and from boat, filling subsistence quotas including kings.

    The problem is local people with subsistence permits breaking the regulations. I know that my race has nothing to do with it if I choose to fish upriver of the bridge.

    As far as my sarcastic white comment, I'm blowing off a little steam after being accosted and threatened by a local drunk racist this year. I paid my $15/day to walk across Ahtna property.
    Turn them in....they have all the same laws and regulations in this state that everyone else does. No matter if they are on Ahtna Land or not. I've seen plenty of Troopers down there over the years, so I know the area isn't completly lawless. I'm not sure what the benefit is of maybe being and Ahtna Shareholder, maybe you don't have to pay the fees... Not sure what your point is with the $15 dollar access statement....its sucks I know, I remember when you could go down and not have to pay to stay at Obrien, or see all these private property signs, I guess it was bound to change, as they have always owned that land.
    You know your not catching any fish when you start talking about the weather...


    http://www.alaskansalmonslayers.com/

  19. #19
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    Default King Closure

    I just returned from Chitina with plenty of fish. I did see a lot of people struggling to get their fish on thursday night and friday. The river has dropped but the heavy run has now diminished somewhat. As to the King closure it is certainly working. I personally netted over twenty Kings some very large. I felt very much discriminated against. I don't believe that stopping dippers from taking a king apiece is right when someone from out of state can catch and keep two a year. I fish as a subsistence means of support for my family and always have. Just because I fish from below the bridge they have disallowed subsistence fishing in that area. I don't believe this is legal or just. I am going to get involved with the dipnetters assoc. and put up some money to help with the legal action to get this thing heard. My 2Cents.

  20. #20

    Default Chitna Dip Netting

    I was in Chitna Monday with a friend and we used Hem's to drop us off at a nice hole. We netted 54 reds. We also netted and released 9 kings one of which was around 50 pounds. Can't understand why we can't each take one. Weather was great, river was low. Can't beat the price of getting dropped off and picked up. Cleaning station donation of $5 per limit was well worth the money to clean that many fish. We camped along O'Brien road under some trees but it was very noisy as there was constant traffic at all hours. All in all a great trip.

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