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Thread: Shooting small diameter arrows

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    Member whitewolf2025's Avatar
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    Default Shooting small diameter arrows

    I am just getting started with bowhunting and I have a stupid question...I went to go pick out some arrows at Sportsman's and realized I had no idea what I was looking at and asked the guy behind the counter for help. Since then, I've read up on it alot more and I think I'm somewhat more knowledgeable, but what they guy gave me was a set of 6 CX Edge 250 arrows, that are a very small diameter. First off I realized that the regular 100 grain field points I had were too big for it (based on what a chart on the box said - if the diameter of the point was larger than the diameter of the arrow, it said you shouldn't use it...) so I bought some 75 grain field points and those fit ok. So my question is, what do I do when I need broadheads, and do they make special narrow diameter ones or does it really matter? Also, I was reading in my book and it says that most good broadheads are in the 100-125 grain range. Won't that be a problem since I've been practicing with 75 grain tips? I'm assuming you don't keep two sets of arrows, one for practice and one for hunting but rather just use the same arrows but switch to broadheads when the time comes? Or should I just scrap the whole small diameter arrow thing and just get regular arrows? My goal is to take the IBEP test this year and ultimately go hunting for caribou up on the Haul Rd, but first I need to figure out what kind of setup I need! I don't have anyone here to teach me or ask questions or anything so I've just been reading books and practicing like mad every night since the start of this week, when I finally got back from the field and had some time to set everything up. Thanks for your help everyone.

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    You are correct, in that you want to practice and hunt with the same weight heads. I'm sure you will be able to find broadheads for your arrows. Just make sure your heads are within legal specs.

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    Default Arrow Selection

    WhiteWolf,
    In order for SW to help you, they need draw weight and draw length.

    The arrow you choses is largely dependent on your draw weight and draw lenght. If you have a relatively short draw length and 50 lb draw weight, you may be able to shoot the CX250s just fine. I would go to the CX website, they have an arrow selection chart, and that is a good place to start. If you have all ready been shooting those arrows, How do they fly? Have you paper tuned? If you are getting consistent arrow flight and paper tune comes okay, then you probably do not need to change a thing.

    The arrow sees no difference whether there is a 100 grain field point or broadhead on the end of the arrow. After the arrow starts flying, after it leaves the nock, that might be a different story. Basically, to transition from field points to broadheads, unscrew fields points, put them in a safe place, screw on broadheads. Take care not to cut yourself.

    A word of caution, if you are going to shoot broadheads into your target, make sure you target is okay for broadheads. I picked up a target for field points when I started shooting. Then, rather that spending the money on a broadhead target, I shot a broadhead into it. That was a mistake. With the broadhead on, I shot entirely through my target and took the vanes off. After the 1st shot, I went to SW to get a target that would take broadheads.

    PM me if you would like. It was only 14 month ago when I bought my bow. I had a number of questions. After of shooting, going to SW, talking to the guys, and shooting again, I have a fair understanding of how it all works. I am far from an expert, but I do about having well placed arrows out to my effective range.

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    your point diameter or broadhead diameter relative to your shaft shouldn't matter. The aluminum insert where you screw your point in is strong enough to keep the point from setting back into your shaft unless you're shooting cinder blocks...

    make sure you get your arrows cut to the right length according to your draw length, draw weight and style of cam that you have on your bow. You're point weight will also determine how long you need to cut your arrows...all these factors involve the spine of your arrow, or stiffness.

    You're arrows will flex when shot. the weaker the spine the more flex, stiffer the spine less flex....there is a balance to be acheived. You don't want them too stiff or to weak, bad things can happen with both.. but if you had to you would want to be slightly stiff with broadheads.

    I would stay away from 75 gr points and stick with 100 or 125gr. You will achieve better broadhead flight and better downrange penatration. Use good broadheads like slicktricks or NAP, or a cut on contact style blade.

    Practice with the same weight field tips as your broadheads....typically they will not impact to the same place. If you're lucky and your bow, arrow and shooter are tuned well they will impact to the same place. This is how you will know your bow and arrow combo are tuned to eachother.

    does it matter. In the long run no....just know that when you're getting ready to hunt if your broadheads don't impact the same place as your field tips to resight your bow for your broadheads. Bow tuning is involved and if you're just starting out I would just focus on learning good form and being consistent. Worry about the tuning later. If you need help let me know...shooting broadheads can be very frustrating. Bottom line, try a broadhead arrow combo, shoot it if it groups well with the others, mark it number and keep that same head/arrow combo. If it doesn't. put it asside try a different head on the shaft and if that doesn't bring it into the group put it aside and use it for practice. it can get more involved but it's not necessary right now.

    have fun and enjoy! it sure get's addicting!

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    Member B-radford's Avatar
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    They sold you the wrong field point, it doesnt matter what the diameter is of the arrow, they make and sell 100 to 125 grain field points for the smaller diameter arrows. I use to shoot the easton Full Metal Jakets and the Nanos and had 125 grain field points on them. Do not shoot them with the larger diameter field points, you will tear the crap out of your target with those.

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    Good point. I forgot about the targets....if you're shoooting a block type target it shouldn't matter, but any other type of target you would want the same diameter field tips as your arrows.

    on a side note, your thinner arrows should have less resistance on game giving you more penatration in theory...

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    Default Archer's Den

    Have you been to see Paul at the Archer's Den? Not to nock anybody at SW, but I have dealt with some people at the archery counter there that had no business working there. On the other hand, Paul is very knowledgeable, and will get you set up good. Take your bow with you, go talk to him, and you will end up with what you need to make your setup shoot the best it can. I can't recommend his shop enough, and the excellent service he provides will have you coming back when you need anything.


    Jake
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    Member whitewolf2025's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your help....to answer some questions - yes, I told the guys at SW my draw weight and length (40 lbs and 23"). I've been shooting these new arrows and they seem to fly alot better then a few of the larger diameter ones I have left over from last season that I managed not to lose. They shoot alot more consistently it seems. I may have to go try king's nock (can't go to archer's den, I live in Fairbanks) tonight and see if they sell the right points I need then. Went there once before when I was first looking for a bow and was kinda put off by the guy's attitude but then again, the people at SW weren't that great either. Something about me being a short young woman throws people off I think. When I bought my bow at SW the guy kept looking at my husband rather than me the entire time he was talking about what I needed and everything, it was kinda funny.

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    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Definitely go to a real archery shop if you have one available. Being new to archery and shopping at SW will be very frustrating. I have heard horror stories about the tech work some of their "experts" have sent out the door. I don't shop there unless I am looking for something specific and am in a hurry, but that is just my opinion.

    Google "arrow spine selection" and do some reading. You will quickly understand there is a lot of science that goes into arrow engineering. It isn't rocket science, but it is nice to know how things work.
    AKmud
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    Member Mort's Avatar
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    You have no problems shooting the slim arrows (I shoot Easton Axis too) except getting the correct diameter field points, like B-radford said. The big problem is when you pull them out of a bag or mesh target - probably less so when using a block type target.

    When you put broadheads on, they will all be larger diameter than your arrows, but you don't plan to pull them out of a bag/mesh target. When you pull them from a block-type target, the blades will (hopefully) just follow out the same path they took going in. Not always, but that's just part of the game.

    One thing to consider, and no offense intended. With your light draw weight and short draw length, you probably should not shoot mechanical broadheads. The energy on your setup may result in improper ops of the broadhead and prevent the penetration you need. A fixed blade won't have the same problem, you should be able to shoot them with greater confidence in getting the penetration and effects you want.

    Shoot often, good luck!

    Chris

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    Default real archery shop

    Sorry about the mix up. I confused your location with someone else's. I agree with AKMud, visit your local archery shop, and ask them all the questions you have. It would be time well spent.

    Jake
    All the romance of trout fishing exists in the mind of the angler and is in no way shared by the fish.

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    Is the archery shop that used to be in North Pole on Badger Raod closed? If not, they were a good source of equipment and very helpful.

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitewolf2025 View Post
    Thanks everyone for your help....to answer some questions - yes, I told the guys at SW my draw weight and length (40 lbs and 23"). I've been shooting these new arrows and they seem to fly alot better then a few of the larger diameter ones I have left over from last season that I managed not to lose. They shoot alot more consistently it seems. I may have to go try king's nock (can't go to archer's den, I live in Fairbanks) tonight and see if they sell the right points I need then. Went there once before when I was first looking for a bow and was kinda put off by the guy's attitude but then again, the people at SW weren't that great either. Something about me being a short young woman throws people off I think. When I bought my bow at SW the guy kept looking at my husband rather than me the entire time he was talking about what I needed and everything, it was kinda funny.

    Maybe he just thought your husband was cute.....Ya never know

    (and maybe he could have gotten you a discount)

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    the cx edge 250's are probably going to be really stiff for your draw length and weight...but,, if they shoot consistently and group well. I wouldn't worry too much unless you're going to shoot really long ranges beyond 40 yards.....I would put 125 grain tips and broadheads on there. It will give you better performance with a stiff arrow. How long did SW cut your arrows?? Were these arrows the only options they gave you?? Like I said, not a huge deal as long as they group well for you.

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    Member whitewolf2025's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    Maybe he just thought your husband was cute.....Ya never know

    (and maybe he could have gotten you a discount)
    Well, I too think my husband's pretty cute

    Frogman, SW cut them to 25". Went by king's nock tonight but they were closed already. Me and a friend went to a barbeque later though and there was a guy there who was really knowledgable (or at least more so than me....lol). He had the same draw length as me, 23", and he was shooting some Easton Axis arrows with 125 gr points. So at least I know it's possible to get the right kind I need.

    Another thing this guy said was that with my lower draw weight, 40 lbs, that I wouldn't be able to shoot out at longer distances like 40 yards because my bow just won't have the penetrating power to get a broadhead through to kill the animal. Is this true? Of course, I want to work my way up to the highest draw weight I can get to but that was kinda depressing to hear...

    One more thing! Seriously this time! I've been having an issue with pulling back the bow with an arrow release. I've been shooting fingers ever since I bought it cause I can't pull it back with a release. I was able to the other night with much, much struggling but should it be that hard? Or am I just too weak? It seems odd that I can pull it back no problem at all with fingers but with a release it's just really hard... And I definately want to be using a release so I'm more consistent and everything. Thanks again.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I would imagine that the release problem is a setup and training issue. I havn't really used a bow in years, but when I did I shot fingers. Recently I started shopping for a bow and have been trying different releases. There is definately differences from one to the next! I would go to a good shop and try several different releases with assistance of a proffesional.

    This is an excersize I am doing while in the desert to increase my draw weight.


    Allow scapula to articulate but do not rotate torso in effort to throw weight up. Torso should be close to horizontal. Positioning the supporting knee and/or arm slightly forward or back will allow for proper leveling of torso.

    I few sets of these a day increasing weight each week and I should be able to draw anything on the rack when I get back! This is also a great way to keep your strength up through the winter when you can't get to the range.
    Last edited by LuJon; 06-05-2009 at 10:28.

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    Member B-radford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitewolf2025 View Post
    One more thing! Seriously this time! I've been having an issue with pulling back the bow with an arrow release. I've been shooting fingers ever since I bought it cause I can't pull it back with a release. I was able to the other night with much, much struggling but should it be that hard? Or am I just too weak? It seems odd that I can pull it back no problem at all with fingers but with a release it's just really hard... And I definately want to be using a release so I'm more consistent and everything. Thanks again.
    Are you having a hard time drawing it back or are you having a hard time getting the cams to "break" over? You might have your DL a little too long. A release will add an inch or two to your draw lenght depending on what style you are using. If you are having a hard time just even drawing it back, lower your weight and work back up.

    When i bought my new Bowtech, i was having a hard time pulling it back so i dropped it down to 60lbs. I would go home on my luch break and shoot 5 arrows, then shoot 5 more after work. I would increase my draw weight every week till i got it back up to 71.

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    40 lbs is enough to kill an animal with good shot placement. with an arrow of 25" it's going to be extremely stiff. So your limiting factor will realistically be your arrow. stiff arrows tend to to not stabilze very well at extended ranges but stabilize very well at short ranges. The other problem is not so much the draw weight but the weight of your arrow will likely be less than 400gr with that short of an arrow, I'd have to look it up to be sure. Your down range energy will be less than with a heavier arrow....

    so that being said...can it be done...yes without a doubt...with proper shot placement... 40 yards for someone starting out is a long ways to shoot. I can cleanly kill an animal out to 70 yards, but I competed at distances that far. EVERY ONE of my bow kills have been under 40 yards so far. 20-30yards is reasonable, 40 is possible but there will be more to go wrong at those distances just starting out. I would work my way out there to see what your reasonable killing range is going to be.

    the others hit it on the head with the release...likely if you're using a wrist style release it will add a inch or so on your draw length making it a little more difficult to draw....two things to do, one and or both: 1) shorten the draw length of the bow or the d loop on your bow 2) shorten up your release so that when your hand is relaxed at full draw the trigger rests right behind the line of your first knuckle of either your index finger or your middle finger..I prefer the middle finger as it gives a better anchor.

    or...

    shoot with a hand style release which is my personal preference... it tends to preserve your draw length and give better anchors...draw back is you can loose it easier if you don't tie it to your wrist.

    or last option.... learn to shoot fingers you'll never loose your release!

    I know plenty of folks who hunt and compete with fingers.. it can be done and is way cool.

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    Member Bearclaw67's Avatar
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    anyone know where a guy could find a dozen of the original beeman hunter60/80 arrows? I know there are probably better carbons today, but I hate to change what works, love those small diameter shafts.
    Paul

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    I would try Archerytalk.com and see if anyone has any that they could sell you. There's some good deals over there.

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