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Thread: Transporting vs Outfitting

  1. #1
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    Default Transporting vs Outfitting

    We recently purchased some remote property, and given the great hunting opportunities in the area was considering doing some transporting or outfitting. We are building a cabin there as well as a couple of other smaller cabins, over time. What we were thinking about doing was providing transport services for hunters interested in hunting our area. Once on the property, at this moment in time, there would not be any lodging opportunities short of pitching their own tent and camping where they want. There would not be any guiding, as this is not what we are persuing at this time.

    So, where does the line fall between transporting and outfitting? Seems the links provided on the state's website are kind of hit-or-miss with their regulations so it's hard to get a solid grasp on what would or would not be required if we were to persue either venture. I found some links on here from previous posts about guiding requirements, but again, guiding is not what we are looking to do. In the states there are "hunting clubs" where one pays their annual dues and shows up whenever they want during hunting season, signs in on a general board in the "club house" and goes to their selected stand. No transportation other than their own, no guiding, the only benefit you got out of this club was the assurance of being able to hunt somewhere other than the overly congested state lands.

    What if we provided something of that nature? What if we just had a B&B situation, and the "guest" hunted if he/she so desired? And if they had their own transportation?? This is our land, here are our stands, good luck and have fun?

    Before obtaining all the licenses and fees required, we just want to make sure we are following the right path!

  2. #2
    Member kahahawai's Avatar
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    Default Property

    The fact, What type of property is it and accesability, and what animals are available and their trophy quality? thats usually what attracts people that are willing to hunt it.

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    Default recommendations

    Having started a self-guided hunting establishment myself here are my recommendations. I was told by folks through this forum and outside it thaI may be in the wrong for what I was doing. I provide meals, lodging, boats, vehicles, etc for self guided hunters here on POW. Fishing is our primary business but hunting for deer and bear was a no brainer. Anyway I attnded the BOG meeting for 3 days got on the docket and asked a lot of questions. I corraled the Troopers and the attorney for the state and got written verification that I was toatlly within the scope of the law with what I was doing. Read - get WRITTEN verification that you are legal. That said I am IN A TOWN, boats leave FROM A HARBOR, etc. Giving folks lodging and gear outside a town is probably not legal it is outfitting. To outfit you need a guides license. Transporting on the other hand is a whole different set of rules you need to look into but you probably can't privide housing, meals, etc if outside a town.

    Ask questions to the state troopers.

    Mike

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Basically outfitters just furnish gear and get it back when the hunters return. A transporter can take you to the beach,cook your meals and furnish camp.They can not be on the hunt or help in any way prepareing the game,skinning butchering ect.Thats the way I see it being done anyway

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    Our property is only accessible by boat, snowmachine or air. We were looking at transporting only, but the rules got fuzzy once we got to the property as it sounds like by providing a place to stay that we were therefore required to have an outfitters license. This may grow into something larger someday, but at the present time we were just looking at providing opportunities for folks to hunt on our property. The hunting would be left up to the hunters, as would their gear as most hunters are more comfortable and much prefer their own gear. If we could indeed get them to the location, and serve them a nice dinner and offer a place to lay their heads at night on a transporter license alone, then that would indeed be what we are looking for.

  6. #6
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    http://www.commerce.state.ak.us/occ/...CSStatutes.pdf

    Sec. 08.54.650. TRANSPORTER LICENSE. (a) A person is entitled to a transporter license if the person
    (1) applies for a transporter license on a form provided by the department; and
    (2) pays the license application fee and the license fee.
    (b) A transporter may provide transportation services and accommodations to big game hunters in the field at a
    permanent lodge, house, or cabin owned by the transporter or on a boat with permanent living quarters located on
    salt water. A transporter may not provide big game hunting services without holding the appropriate license.
    (c) A transporter shall provide an annual activity report on a form provided by the department. An activity report
    must contain all information required by the board by regulation.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Bill, this is what we read too. The matter just became confusing when there were too many do's and don'ts mentioned that are not in that statuate.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    TMS, I know a bit about your situation after trying to help a fellow who was told he could no longer rent out skiffs (or even his remote cabin) to big game hunters without a transporters license because his remote property was "in the field" and the law has differing stances on what one can do within a town, a "harbor," and in the field. Which is why Gooch can legally do what he can do but someone like yourself cannot without the proper license.

    End result was the law was changed and now this guy can rent his remote cabin located "in the field" to big game hunters without a transporters license, but he can't rent his skiff out (he could rent a raft from the "airport" though where his clients originate from...but since the skiff is "in the field" he can't rent it out without a transporters license and the way I understand it he can't include it either as part of a package deal, cabin rental with boat).

    You should be able to rent a future cabin on your property to big game hunters w/o a transpo license. But if you want to provide a boat, canoe, atv, etc...you'll need the transpo license. There is a very fine line between transporting and guiding that has caused legal problems for transporters you have to be careful about. I am not sure about the legality of having pre-setup blinds or platforms that hunters can use, w/o a guide license. Good luck,

  9. #9

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    This forum may be ok for a general inquiry about legal issues. However, the bottom line is FOLLOW the advice given in response #3. To many variables to be "accepting" or seeking legal advice on a public forum.
    Good luck
    Joe (Ak)

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Our property is only accessible by boat, snowmachine or air. We were looking at transporting only, but the rules got fuzzy once we got to the property as it sounds like by providing a place to stay that we were therefore required to have an outfitters license. This may grow into something larger someday, but at the present time we were just looking at providing opportunities for folks to hunt on our property. The hunting would be left up to the hunters, as would their gear as most hunters are more comfortable and much prefer their own gear. If we could indeed get them to the location, and serve them a nice dinner and offer a place to lay their heads at night on a transporter license alone, then that would indeed be what we are looking for.

  10. #10

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    One point I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that a transporter can't direct hunters or give advice as to where look for game, and he also can't suggest to the hunter to where go. For example, I know a very ethical transporter who lives by the letter of the law who transports hunters by boat. He won't even point out game to the hunters that he sees on the beach as he's transporting the hunters to THEIR chosen hunting location.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by wags View Post
    One point I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that a transporter can't direct hunters or give advice as to where look for game, and he also can't suggest to the hunter to where go. For example, I know a very ethical transporter who lives by the letter of the law who transports hunters by boat. He won't even point out game to the hunters that he sees on the beach as he's transporting the hunters to THEIR chosen hunting location.
    Could you please show us the law or regulation your getting your information from?

    Guiding is an occupation that takes place in the field.

    A transporter can tell a client, show a client, and give any kind of advice possible.

    A transporter just can not be 'in the field' with a client except for transporting and loading and unloading.


  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post


    End result was the law was changed and now this guy can rent his remote cabin located "in the field" to big game hunters without a transporters license, but he can't rent his skiff out (he could rent a raft from the "airport" though where his clients originate from...but since the skiff is "in the field" he can't rent it out without a transporters license and the way I understand it he can't include it either as part of a package deal, cabin rental with boat).


    So, what your saying is "if A1" had a 'transporter' license, and owned the property...regardless of whether he actually transported the person he could then rent the skiffs "in the field"?

    Or, if you owned a cabin in the "western waters" region, and had only a 6 pax license, you could get a "transporters license" and then rent the boat and the cabin.

    What about the cabin furnishings like cooking and eating utinsils, heating oil, propane firewood ect...can A1 include that stuff as part of the cabin rental agreement and not cross the line of "outfitting"? <biggRin>






  13. #13
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalanche
    So, what your saying is "if A1" had a 'transporter' license, and owned the property...regardless of whether he actually transported the person he could then rent the skiffs "in the field"?


    Yep, that's what I'm sayin'.
    Or, if you owned a cabin in the "western waters" region, and had only a 6 pax license, you could get a "transporters license" and then rent the boat and the cabin.


    That's how I understand it.

    What about the cabin furnishings like cooking and eating utinsils, heating oil, propane firewood ect...can A1 include that stuff as part of the cabin rental agreement and not cross the line of "outfitting"? <big Grin>


    Big Grin right back! Actually, the way it all worked out about the only thing A1 can legally do without a transporters license is rent his private property cabin itself to big game hunters.




  14. #14

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    but if a transporter had a lease on state ground and had a cabin on it he could not rent it to RESIDENT hunters?

    But he could to fishermen, wildlife viewers, Swedish bikini team and all that stuff...@!!

    They sure "fixed" the law!!



    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post


    Yep, that's what I'm sayin'.


    That's how I understand it.



    Big Grin right back! Actually, the way it all worked out about the only thing A1 can legally do without a transporters license is rent his private property cabin itself to big game hunters.





  15. #15

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    Avalanche,

    The sticky point is "in the field". I'm not a transporter, however the transporter I know has researched the law. He has come to the conclusion that when he leaves the dock, boat launch, town, etc., he is then in the field. I think the argument could be made that if you are seeing game in an area that is open season for the species that you are hunting you are then in the field. The problem that is occurring in some areas such as with transported black bear hunts in southeast is the transporter provides boat transport with accommodations on the boat, the boat cruises around, the transporter sees a bear on the beach and sends the hunters to shore in a skiff. That's walking a pretty fine line and I believe would be considered guiding. I'm willing to stand corrected on this?? ( the transporter I personally know is not located in Southeast).

    Mark

  16. #16

    Default Guiding is not by definition "talking". We have not lost that much freedoom have we?

    Quote Originally Posted by wags View Post
    Avalanche,

    The sticky point is "in the field". I'm not a transporter, however the transporter I know has researched the law. He has come to the conclusion that when he leaves the dock, boat launch, town, etc., he is then in the field. I think the argument could be made that if you are seeing game in an area that is open season for the species that you are hunting you are then in the field.
    I agree with you that your transporter buddy is right that once he leaves he is in the field but he is not guiding. He is transporting. And as long as he is transporting he can give or any advice he wishes to his clients. He can show them the game he can give them strategy, suggest places to camp and be as helpful to his clients as possible. Even while unloading because he is still transporting...not guiding.

    GUIDING takes place in the field but it can not take place while "transporting".

    Quote Originally Posted by wags View Post
    The problem that is occurring in some areas such as with transported black bear hunts in southeast is the transporter provides boat transport with accommodations on the boat, the boat cruises around, the transporter sees a bear on the beach and sends the hunters to shore in a skiff. That's walking a pretty fine line and I believe would be considered guiding. I'm willing to stand corrected on this?? ( the transporter I personally know is not located in Southeast).

    Mark
    Boat based hunts are no different. As long as the clients are aboard the mother ship it does not matte who "sees" the bear. The transporter could even drive the skiff to the beach and it still is not guiding, it is transporting.

    Here is another way to look at it.

    If the definition of "accompany" the hunter in the field were found to be any time the client was 'in the field' then there would not be any need for a transporter. Only guides could transport hunters.

    To "guide" means to 'accompany' the client in the field. So, it is clear that 'to guide' does not mean or include 'transporting'.

    That make any sense to ya?


  17. #17

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    Avalanche,
    If (according to the way you see it) the transporter can be in the field giving advice, running the hunters to shore in a skiff in pursuit of a bear, etc., then at what point would he be crossing the line into guiding?
    Mark

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by wags View Post
    Avalanche,
    If (according to the way you see it) the transporter can be in the field giving advice, running the hunters to shore in a skiff in pursuit of a bear, etc., then at what point would he be crossing the line into guiding?
    Mark

    When he gets out of the boat for anything more than unloading.


  19. #19

    Default P.M.

    Avalanche,
    Check your P.M.'s
    Mark

  20. #20
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    IN the field? what is in the field. by the regulation book for hunting in the field is NOT the place where the meat will be processed... by the terms listed in this thread i have been "in the field" my entire life... but perhaps that only applies during August caribou and September moose seasons...

    so lets gander at it from tis view... am i in the field NOW? i can if i choose legally shoot any weapon i have out my window should i wish...

    i can not see my neighbors.

    i can hunt from my yard ( and have done so on many occasions)

    i also have a mining claim 26 miles off the road.. the only time i see the trooper to check on my license is during september... so if i have a shovel in my hand i must be hunting? but NOT doing so the rest of the year?

    i have applied for bow hunts in town...

    i am not in the field when in town?

    perhaps i need to move into a cinder block forest to not be in the field? because as i read all of this.. 90% or better of the residents in this area are in the field as it stands... and the folks running the B&B's all over for the hunters to stay at, or fisherman to visit while chasing that king, or digging those clams ... they are transporting...????????????? they are NOT in town, they are NOT in the harbor, they provide lodging, food, and care for outdoors men/women....


    my legal requirement to keep meat on the bone is done when it reaches the point of processing( destination) my cabin in the woods a long way from folks is NOT in the field.. it is a residence. the Field just occasionally come up to it. but i guess that is ONLY when i am ACTIVELY pursuing? or is it only when i am legally able to pursue game around it?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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