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Thread: Is Braid A Hoax?

  1. #1

    Default Is Braid A Hoax?

    So I lost a good sized king on the Anchor last Saturday and I've been pretty pissed at myself since then. But I've also thought a thought about what I did wrong and what failed. Honestly, I am still pretty shocked that my line snapped.

    The odd thing is, I was running 60lb braid with a 50lb mono leader, and the line snapped at the braid, not the at the mono leader. Well, huh?

    So I just went out to my garage and very unscientifically tied line to a swivel, screwed it to the work bench, and tried to break it. Now, I didn't have anything to measure the actual pressure, so the results were probably not totally accurate. But what I found was that the Power Pro snapped way easier than mono of a lower test. I mean, both the 50 and 60 lb Power Pro broke with WAY less force than the 50lb Maxima leader. So what's the deal?

    I suspect this probably has something to do with the mono stretching, but I don't know. And just to clarify, the Power Pro broke right above the knot, not against the swivel. And the Maxima leader broke more or less at a random point somewhere between between the knot and the object I was pulling it with.

    And I know you don't want to take all of the fun out of catching big fighting fish, but my freezer and wife both want salmon. At this point I figure I need to restring everything with mono or go to 150lb braid, but to be honest, the way things went, I wouldn't be totally suprised if even the 50lb Power Pro would snap easier than the Maxima.

    Am I using the wrong braid? I have used Fire Line in the past and wasn't wild about it. Or should I just go back to mono?

  2. #2
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    If you use the wrong knot on braid, it will reduce the breaking stength by 50%. Braid will cut into itself with the wrong knot.

    What I do is run the braid inside a 1' lenght of dacron (it's hollow) and then tie the knot. For braid/mono I use a uni knot. You could also use a wind on leader which what I'll probably go to in the future.

    Braid is great, but does have some unique characteristics that need to be adressed. It's also not necessarily the best line for every application.

    When I was setting the drags on my lever drag bottom fish rigs, I had one of them set too high on max drag. I didn't get a chance to reed the spring scale, but it was at least at ~45#'s when the 50# line let loose, and I thought I'd broken my rod as it was loud when it broke. I was just using a palomer to a 4/0 corscrew swivel, and the corkscrew was bent from the force.

  3. #3
    Member mntransplant's Avatar
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    Default Brand of braid maybe?

    It seems pretty odd for that to happen. I've never used that brand but i hear its supposed to be good.. I usually use spider wire stealth and i have never had a problem before. Most guys dont like braided line for one reason or another but i really like it for the fact that it doesnt break and your fish doesnt get off the line. Sorry to hear about you losing a fish like that. I'm sure it will haunt you for quite awhile.

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    Braid is great for the ocean, but sucks for river fishing.
    Tennessee

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    The actual breaking strength of most Spectra lines is far above the line rating simply because of the poor knot performance. The best knot I've found for attaching terminal tackle is a doubled uniknot....double the line and then tie a good uni.....being careful that the knot lays properly.....you will then have a loop and a tag to cut off.....I often glue the knot for top performance.


    Power Pro is especially vulnerable to any knots that require twisting tightly such as the Bimini Twist. Palomar knots are usually about a 50% knot in Spectra line.

    I much prefer Jerry Brown Line one hollow braid over any of the other brands.

    Big game fishermen usually set their reel drag at 25% to 33% of the pound test of the line used. So a 50# line on a salmon reel is probably counterproductive as most of our salmon reels won't achieve 12.5# to 17# of drag.

  6. #6
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Braid is also easily chaffed, which significantly weakens it. I use braided line almost exclusively for all sorts of salmon fishing, and don't normally have problems with it at all. However, as mentioned you need to use specific knots or it can weaken or cause knot slippage. And if there is any damage to the line that you notice immediately cut it off above the damaged line and re-tie. That is one area where good mono still has an edge in my head. It can take a beating and still maintain a good portion of it's strength.

    All of that said, my wife HATES braided line...lol. She always has problems with tangles and she's lost a few fish, mostly I think due to bad knots. I was fishing last year for silvers with a couple of guys, and one was hooking a lot of fish and losing them all...breaking off...I finally figured out it was because he was tying his hook directly to the braided line, no swivel or leader. It wasn't taking long for silvers teeth and gill plates to saw right through the braided line. Once we figured out the problem, I got him set up with mono leaders and the catching began...

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    Default one more thing to think about!

    We too broke off a number of fish with lesser weight braid when trolling in the salt. As a result we put 80 lb or everything! Heres what we gained, havn't lost a fish yet, reel related problems due to the braid pulling into itself went away and the biggy, no more cut hands when handling the stuff. 80lb is the same dia as 20 lb mono so it fishes well, cast well, is easier to tie etc. Might want to spool one up and give it a try, but I would'nt give up on it yet.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by coho slayer View Post
    Braid is also easily chaffed, which significantly weakens it.
    I second this; I use braided line exclusively and if you see any chaffing, it's time to retie. Can be a pain in the butt, but if you don't, you'll end up retying it later without the gear you currently have on the end of your line.

    I don't have any problem using the Bimini Twist knot...

  9. #9

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    Right on. I'm gonna switch up knots and spool up some 80lb Spider Wire I just picked up. If that fails I'll check out the hollow dacron. Actually, I'll give that a try when I find some regardless, because hey, why not and it sounds cool.

    I completely agree with that cutting into itself bit. That would explain why I was essentially being left with half a knot when I snapped it. The crazy thing is that I first spooled braid about 3 years ago for surf casting and never had a problem. My guess is I always used a test so much greater than the fish that it didn't come up. But versus a good king and more or less instant fail.

  10. #10
    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Default Please explain this theory??

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Braid is great for the ocean, but sucks for river fishing.
    Braid is all in the application... It is not as abration resistant as mono, but lasts forever if kept out of the sun, kept clean, and not worn by abration....

    While 50# is often not heavy enough for the Kenai, 80# is often overkill... Personally I prefer 50# for river fishing and is really tough stuff and last forever as long as u keep a keen eye out for normal wear and tear on the line and pull off worn line... Also just flipping the line direction will double the life of braid....

  11. #11
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    If you're river fishing and basically bouncing it along the bottom, just check your knots and the line within a few feet of the knot every once in a while. Even if you're using a leader, it can get dragged through rocks and snags and rough up the line or the knot itself. If you see any fraying, cut and retie your rig. That should keep most problems from ever occuring in the first place.

    For what it's worth, I've never had any knot problems with palomar knots. In my experience they have been a perfectly solid knot with braided line. I caught almost 20 silvers last fall in Valdez on one knot. I went through about a dozen leader set-ups, but my original swivel to line held up just fine on 30lb braid.

  12. #12
    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
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    I hate braid, it sucks in my opinion.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

  13. #13
    Member coho slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Alaska View Post
    I hate braid, it sucks in my opinion.
    Any particular reason?

    I am not one of those people who is going to tell you you're wrong, btw. I like mono in some situations, dacron in some, braid in some...some reels just work better with one or the other....I'm just curious what your reasons are.

  14. #14

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    I use braid extensively and I don't have problems with it. I must be lucky.

  15. #15

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    guys dont get me wrong with this statement but you get what you pay for....the japanese are the leaders in pe line (braid)....YGK JIGMAN VIVARIS, ZTOGA ARE THE BEST LINE MONEY CAN BUY PERIOD......the line is super smooth light and tough we have put this line through the ringer....just my two cents.....
    BONEYARDBAITS THE BEST HALIBUT, ROCKFISH GRUBS ON THE PLANET....''06'' WORLD RECORD LINGCOD ''08'' HOMER HALIBUT DERBY WINNER''. BOTH FISH CAUGHT WITH BONEYARDBAIT GRUBS WWW.BONEYARDBAITS.COM

  16. #16
    Member akshrop's Avatar
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    I spool all my reels with braid. I love it. I don't use it for leaders though and I have had a few knot failures, but on the whole I think it is much better than mono. My guess is that your line that failed was damaged or defective somehow. I re-spool every season and inspect the last 10 feet or so multiple times a day while fishing. I also have found that if I spool it all out while trolling (no weight just water drag) for a few minutes, then reel it all in, it sets better into the reel and performs much better against back lashing and hanging up in the reel when a fish takes line out. It gets some of the coating off and breaks it all in. I pinch the line as I respool this way to get additional coating off the line and add some drag to lay it down tighter.

  17. #17
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

    If you use the wrong knot on braid, it will reduce the breaking stength by 50%. Braid will cut into itself with the wrong knot.
    Yep. Great info.
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

  18. #18
    Member LungShot's Avatar
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    Default knots

    I learned the hard way on a big Halibut using braided line. Normal knots will cut themselves every time. Now I use the correct knot and haven't lost one since.

  19. #19
    Member Jan from Humboldt's Avatar
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    As stated braid does not take well to abraison, I also trim back a couple of feet and retie my terminating knot every trip. I fish the braid directly to a swivel and then a short heavy mono 100# leader.

    I double the line over and tie a San Diego knot which hasn't failed yet. For spectra to mono the Uni to Uni is hard to beat.

    I'm fishing 65 and 80 Power Pro

  20. #20
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    You may have gotten a bad batch of line. That does happen once in a while. If that stuff is snapping (not at the knot), you should just go out and buy some new stuff and send that old stuff back to the manufacturer. A lot of the guides on the Kenai now use braided for Kings if that's any point of reference. Believe me when I say that they do not want their clients to lose a fish because of the line.

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