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Thread: King - hen or buck

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Default King - hen or buck

    What are the key differences between a hen and a buck king when they are dime bright?

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    Wink

    When you cut them open, one will have eggs and the other will have sperm sacks. Meat is the same in both.
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    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    What are the key differences between a hen and a buck king when they are dime bright?
    Hopefully fishing physicial will post some pics too, but typically the shape of the belly at the vertral fins (two on the bottom, mid belly). Typically males have a square belly and females round... Of course this doesn't work for smaller maes... Very few fish under 30" are actually females and pretty much none under 25".

    Jaw shape can be a good indication and so can the size of the adipose... Large adipose for males....

    Regardless, the less mature the fish, the less secondary sex charachteristics they have to tell the two appart.



    May 25th Kenai Hen.


    Deep Cr Buck.


    Large Kenai Buck... This is a very mature fish clearly illistrating typical jaw "kype."


    Less mature Deep Cr Buck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    When you cut them open, one will have eggs and the other will have sperm sacks. Meat is the same in both.
    Untrue, typically males have much better meat then females given that males will often show secondary sex characthistics more then females (i.e. chrome females sometimes have marginal meat quality, while red buck often are fine).

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    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Male


    Female


    Early late run Kasilof king... Female, notice the small adipose and round belly.


    Check out the large adipose on this chrome 50+ inch Kenai late run king. Easily a male.

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    Ty's got enough pics to demonstrate the most recognizable features between bucks and hens.

    Folks are far more likely to mistake a very fresh bright buck for a hen. The time there's really confusion on a BRIGHT fish is when you catch a king under 18-20 pounds.... smallish head with blunt nose, round football shaped body, just beautiful features that scream FEMALE. That is, until you cut it open and see the obvious milt sacs! Girl on the outside and boy on the inside! Growing up, we called these femme-looking jacks FA66OT fish. A hen under 18-20 pounds is an incredibly RARE critter.... unless you're an eastside setnetter (the only folks who seem to routinely catch these mythical 2-ocean "jills"), that fish is gonna be a BOY. Trust me.

    When it comes to darker fish, folks are more likely to mistake a dark overripe hen for a buck. The only time there's really any confusion on a ripe fire-engine is when a big ol' hen starts sprouting some big nasty teeth. Her jaws can start to look rather masculine (much like hirsute old ladies). One look at her big round belly full of eggs will remove all doubt, but if she has already dropped most or all of her load, that big ol' gal is gonna look awful manly.

    The best pic in Ty's series that shows the physical feature that is abso-positively foolproof is this one.




    Look carefully at the lady's left index finger where it wraps around the egg-shooter-thing-a-ma-jiggy that looks like a protruding hemorrhoid. It's actually called an ovipositor, and it's what a hen uses to deposit her eggs in her nest. That's a pretty obvious one, but sometimes they just barely stick out. Sometimes applying light pressure on the belly and stroking toward the anal vent will cause it to pop out.

    If you see that structure, it's a female.... I guarantee it.

    If you don't see it, or can't make it stick out with light belly pressure, just take a real close look at the anal vent itself. If you see a very small, very tight opening, the fish is a male. If it looks rather large, loose, round, and slightly over-used, the fish is a female.
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    Member MRFISH's Avatar
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    Thumbs up ovipositor

    Ditto to fNp's comment about the ovipositor. This can be difficult to do on a live fish, especially if you're looking to release it. Obviously if the fish is dead and the muscles are relaxed (and it's not going to be flopping around from handling and light squeezing), it's much easier.

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    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Ty's got enough pics to demonstrate the most recognizable features between bucks and hens.

    Folks are far more likely to mistake a very fresh bright buck for a hen. The time there's really confusion on a BRIGHT fish is when you catch a king under 18-20 pounds.... smallish head with blunt nose, round football shaped body, just beautiful features that scream FEMALE. That is, until you cut it open and see the obvious milt sacs! Girl on the outside and boy on the inside! Growing up, we called these femme-looking jacks FA66OT fish. A hen under 18-20 pounds is an incredibly RARE critter.... unless you're an eastside setnetter (the only folks who seem to routinely catch these mythical 2-ocean "jills"), that fish is gonna be a BOY. Trust me.

    When it comes to darker fish, folks are more likely to mistake a dark overripe hen for a buck. The only time there's really any confusion on a ripe fire-engine is when a big ol' hen starts sprouting some big nasty teeth. Her jaws can start to look rather masculine (much like hirsute old ladies). One look at her big round belly full of eggs will remove all doubt, but if she has already dropped most or all of her load, that big ol' gal is gonna look awful manly.

    The best pic in Ty's series that shows the physical feature that is abso-positively foolproof is this one.

    Look carefully at the lady's left index finger where it wraps around the egg-shooter-thing-a-ma-jiggy that looks like a protruding hemorrhoid. It's actually called an ovipositor, and it's what a hen uses to deposit her eggs in her nest. That's a pretty obvious one, but sometimes they just barely stick out. Sometimes applying light pressure on the belly and stroking toward the anal vent will cause it to pop out.

    If you see that structure, it's a female.... I guarantee it.

    If you don't see it, or can't make it stick out with light belly pressure, just take a real close look at the anal vent itself. If you see a very small, very tight opening, the fish is a male. If it looks rather large, loose, round, and slightly over-used, the fish is a female.
    Or a PORN Star!!!!! Bom Chick A Wow Wow!!!!

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    Member bigcox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    Or a PORN Star!!!!! Bom Chick A Wow Wow!!!!

    Sorry I couldn't hep mysef!!

    Haha....I was thinking the same thing.....

    Lol!

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    Member Tomcat's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Large Kenai Buck

    Ty,

    Enjoyed the cool pics. Definitely some nice fish.

    Gotta ask though... What the devil is going on in your third photo?

    Never seen a salmon skinned like that before! Any particular reason? Noticed the guy with the clipboard, which leads me to believe it was for a study project.

    Tom

  11. #11

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by TYNMON View Post
    Untrue, typically males have much better meat then females given that males will often show secondary sex characthistics more then females (i.e. chrome females sometimes have marginal meat quality, while red buck often are fine).
    Think again about what the original post was about. "BRIGHT CHROME" fish. I stand by my earlier statement, about the meat being comparable. Everyone knows the males blush faster and females deteriorate from the inside faster than the males, but this is not part of the discussion.
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    Default Real life Taxidermy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat View Post
    Ty,

    Enjoyed the cool pics. Definitely some nice fish.

    Gotta ask though... What the devil is going on in your third photo?

    Never seen a salmon skinned like that before! Any particular reason? Noticed the guy with the clipboard, which leads me to believe it was for a study project.

    Tom
    That fish being skinned is how they do skin mounts.... That fish was a 70+ fish taken by another guide on the middle river two summers ago...






    This fish is actually filleted on the far side so she could hold it up easier!!

  13. #13
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    The only chinook that the ovipositor is not universally present are in drainages with early spring run-timing. For example it is VERY difficult to sex Columbia River spring kings because they come into the river so sexually immature. The egg skeins are the size of a small carrot, and the berries are about 3 mm tops. The ovipositor is not big enough to protrude thru the vent.

    Alaska kings all have summer run-timing, and hens have large egg skeins with fairly mature berries (7-8 mm plus) even when the skeins are tight and the hen is platinum bright. The sex organs are very well developed, including the ovipositor.

    Here's a pic of a tide-fresh platinum L'il Su hen caught shortly after the opening bell. The fish is s-o-o-o-o fresh that it's still purple on the back, the anal fin has a wide transparent band across its entire trailing edge, and scales are rubbing off the caudal peduncle even with the very gentlest grasp.

    Even when a hen is THAT clean, you can still make out the ovipositor just in front of the anal fin. If there is ANY tissue protruding from the vent, no matter how small, it's a GIRL!
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    Member Tomcat's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Now I Know...

    [QUOTE=TYNMON;503743]That fish being skinned is how they do skin mounts.... That fish was a 70+ fish taken by another guide on the middle river two summers ago...


    QUOTE]

    Very interesting and insightful. The shot of her holding up all of that skin is incredible. Must be surgeon!

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