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Thread: School me on M1 Carbines

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    Member North Polar's Avatar
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    Default School me on M1 Carbines

    I'm debating getting an AR or a M1 Carbine for the wife. She's a tiny thing that is honestly scared of shooting my AR currently.

    So, it would be something i have time to save up for as i get her started on a .22 this summer.

    Which do you fellas think would be better? I have handled the M1 but have never fired one. Hows the recoil, etc?

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    My Uncle Robbie fought as a Marine throughout the Pacific island hopping campaign right up into the occupation of Japan. He HATED the M1 carbine. Threw his away and used a Garand with AP exclusively when he could get his hands on it. He said it was good for nothing, and this from a guy who shot an awful lot of people with it. So I took him to be an authority.

    I owned a Universal carbine, a replica. It was ok for goofing off. I started reloading to feed it. But I never hunted with the little rifle and woulnd't today. It is just too underpowered with the pipsqueak 110 grain bullet at 2000fps.

    Get a retractable stock for your AR. Have the wife play with the .22 for some time, then tell her the AR is also a .22 (technically it isn't), just a little more spunk. Make sure she uses both EAR soft plugs (NPR 33) and a quality pair of muffs with an NPR over 30.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I carried a M2 carbine most of the time in Viet Nam and loved it. We were most always in the thick brush and you could carry more mags and the 357mag power was fine for close range. The M2 has the full auto selector and I never had a problem.The Universal is not up to the standards of the military ones but are OK.

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    Our gun club had M1 Carbines for the kids to shoot while learning the HighPower game. Recoil is very mild. 110 gr. at 2K fps is better than yelling. Before I turned the M1 in I shot it a few times...didn't like the trigger, etc.

    I've been trying to get the wife into a rifle; something light. Couldn't get her interested in the Carbine and all my AR's have heavy barrels. She didn't like the recoil pulse of the Mini-14.

    My plan is: I have a couple of AR lowers on order and one of them is going to be made up as light as possible and with PINK furniture. I hope it'll up the interest. It'll clearly be HER gun. Given all the parts you can get and the ability to mount different aiming systems, the AR is a better platform.

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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    The girls, and yes, the boys too, love M-1 carbines. My wife loves to shoot the Winchester M-1 we have. It's acceptably accurate and recoil is mild. 15 round mags are still cheap and plentiful. Reload and shoot cheap. Go to ODCMP.ORG and jump through a couple hoops and get a REAL GI carbine direct from uncle sam, delivered to your doorstep. How cool is that? I don't recommend buying a plainfield or universal commercial carbine, seen too many failures over the years. Good luck!

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    Default Alaska Bears With the M1 Carbine Documented

    The pic is from AK fish and game btw
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    M1 30 carbine is a good fun big-boy-toy with power similar to something like a 9mm in the same length of barrel. A poor hunting rifle and not a very good battle rifle for that matter, but will make a fun shooter at the range.

    If your wife has fear of recoil and guns I would start her on an AR with a 22 upper and work her up to 223 slowly as she overcomes her fear. Whatever you do take it slow, keep it fun and never be critical or pushy about it.
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    Member North Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    M1 30 carbine is a good fun big-boy-toy with power similar to something like a 9mm in the same length of barrel. A poor hunting rifle and not a very good battle rifle for that matter, but will make a fun shooter at the range.

    If your wife has fear of recoil and guns I would start her on an AR with a 22 upper and work her up to 223 slowly as she overcomes her fear. Whatever you do take it slow, keep it fun and never be critical or pushy about it.
    I have been contemplating getting a spikes 22 upper. Downside on that, is for the price of the upper i could get a very well set up 10/22 and a crapload of ammo. Well, when we actually get ammo again. Till then, its practice time with the savage 93r17 for her

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    I have been contemplating getting a spikes 22 upper. Downside on that, is for the price of the upper i could get a very well set up 10/22 and a crapload of ammo. Well, when we actually get ammo again. Till then, its practice time with the savage 93r17 for her
    True and thatís why I don't have a 22 upper myself, but if my wife or kid had a fear of guns I canít think of a better way to get them past it. A 10-22 could do the trick too and they can even be dressed to look very much like an AR if a guy wants. I just was thinking that itís not a fear of recoil as a 223/5.56 AR is a smooth shooter so it must be a fear of guns in general and making it as fun as possible would be the best medicine for that.
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    What I've found scares alot of new shooters is the muzzle blast. Get her some good foam ear plugs AND a set of good ear muffs.

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    You won't find on whit of difference in recoil between the M-1 carbine and the AR. Given the fact there's truck loads of AR accessories and parts out there, I'd figure out a way to get her comfortable with the AR. A .22 lr conversion kit would be a good start.

    Besides, Uncle Sam manages to teach thousands of women each year to be comfortable and proficient with ARs. You just arren't using the right motivation methods.

    M-1s are fun to play with, but I'd never trust one for serious work. If you thought AR had a nasty reputation for being unreliable and a maintenance nightmare, you haven't seen anything until you start futzing with an M-1 carbine. They are fine until the temperatures start dropping below freezing then you get stovepipes about every 3rd shot. It's no wonder GIs in Korea were ditching them for Garands.
    Now what ?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Its funny the AR is so good now as in Viet Nam we carried anything else we could fine because of the AR problems of the day,now corrected. I never saw a carbine or grease gun jam in two years over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Its funny the AR is so good now as in Viet Nam we carried anything else we could fine because of the AR problems of the day,now corrected. I never saw a carbine or grease gun jam in two years over there.
    They put the M16 in country, in the mud and muck without chromed bores or cleaning kits. Then even told the guys it was so good they donít even need to clean it. What a great recipe for success that was!
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    Default M1

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Its funny the AR is so good now as in Viet Nam we carried anything else we could fine because of the AR problems of the day,now corrected. I never saw a carbine or grease gun jam in two years over there.

    The AR wasnt used much because of the jamming problem. They were built to perfect with no room for dirt in the action. Once it got dirty which was pretty quick it would fire.

    My father was in WWII and the Korean war and said the officers carried the M1 and after he retired he had a chance to get one and after we went and shot it. was fun to play with but I would have wanted a Garand if it were me. He actually took it mule deer hunting in New Mexico one year we went. It was terrible, he eventually borrowed my rifle.
    One shot one kill

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The first AR's to hit Viet Nam were the 15 and didn't have the forward assist so much of the time the rounds wouldn't chamber to start. Second problem was the gas tube was to thin and a tiger tail would crimp it of so it wouldn't eject. also the mag spring was to light so they could get it to hold twenty rounds so it wouldn't feed good unless you just loaded 18 rounds.Next the buffer tube was to thin and if you hit the deck like trained with the M-14 or M-1 the stock busted off and the buffer was lost.Last the Corps had to change from quailfing at five yards to three hundred as the gun of the time wouldn't shoot that far.It was great fr inspections though,Marine is that rust on your rifle,NOOO Sirrr its discoloration the M-16 won't rust

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    About the M1 carbine....it is a great little gun. I grew up with one, dad had an original Winchester, learned to shoot it with the aperature sights at a young age. It is woefully under powered for anything serious, not a stopper of man or beast (used it in a far away land also) but it is a fun gun and small children love to shoot it. Many 6 and 7 year old kids take to it. The Universal and even the new Kahr (Thompson) guns aren't what the military guns were and mil spec magazines don't fit the Kahr guns but it is a fun kids gun. It's power range is about right for cats...a great cat gun..I mean house cat sized feline. But it isn't a hunting gun other than that though I've taken deer with one. It is very mild recoil and report, easy for newbies to learn to shoot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The first AR's to hit Viet Nam were the 15 and didn't have the forward assist so much of the time the rounds wouldn't chamber to start. Second problem was the gas tube was to thin and a tiger tail would crimp it of so it wouldn't eject. also the mag spring was to light so they could get it to hold twenty rounds so it wouldn't feed good unless you just loaded 18 rounds.Next the buffer tube was to thin and if you hit the deck like trained with the M-14 or M-1 the stock busted off and the buffer was lost.Last the Corps had to change from quailfing at five yards to three hundred as the gun of the time wouldn't shoot that far.It was great fr inspections though,Marine is that rust on your rifle,NOOO Sirrr its discoloration the M-16 won't rust
    Yes I forgot that it started life as the M-15 with the lack of a way to shut the bolt other than the weak spring, etc, etc. It was far from ready for combat on countless levels. Mine was mostly just a commit on the lack of wisdom employed in replacing the M-14 the way it was done, all at once, all branches of service, in war time, with very little field testing. I know this got many of our boys killed needlessly over there and I strongly suspect my brother was one of them. Time has proven the M-16 to be a heck of a great battle rifle once the debugging was done, but the politics around its forced adoption before it was reedy gave it a bad reputation that the design itself did not deserve and lasted for many years.



    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    About the M1 carbine....it is a great little gun. I grew up with one, dad had an original Winchester, learned to shoot it with the aperature sights at a young age. It is woefully under powered for anything serious, not a stopper of man or beast (used it in a far away land also) but it is a fun gun and small children love to shoot it. Many 6 and 7 year old kids take to it. The Universal and even the new Kahr (Thompson) guns aren't what the military guns were and mil spec magazines don't fit the Kahr guns but it is a fun kids gun. It's power range is about right for cats...a great cat gun..I mean house cat sized feline. But it isn't a hunting gun other than that though I've taken deer with one. It is very mild recoil and report, easy for newbies to learn to shoot.
    Icompletely concur with your easement of the M-1 Carbine. Itís a blast to shoot and a good place to start a kid on semi-autos, tuff as nails and easy to feed, bathe, and house. Just falls way short in the shock-n-awe department, donít got half the power you would think from looking at the round itself. I have one that lives over my back door for cat and dog control where a 22 is not quite enough but a 223 is too noisy and overkill.



    As to the original question:
    Like I said I would pick the AR of the two options and maybe a 22 upper for making it fun to help her past the fear of guns. But there are other options that have not been asked about or covered yet. You may want to look into a mini 14 which is a 223 or mini 30 which is a 7.62X39mm, both can be found used for around the same money as the M-1 Carbine or less. The minis have a similar look to the M-1 Carbine, 7.62X39 ammo is cheap and while no powerhouse is quite a lot more powerful than the 30Carbine, you already know about 223. Just more food for thought.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Yep Stoner also built a very good gun and gave the goverment the choice of the two. The good one cost $1,500 in 66 and the five we had for trial were purchased by members of or company when given the choice or send them back. It was six guns in one,rifle,pistol,mag feed or belt and long or short barrel and had bypod or tripod still in 223 though. I was in First Force Recon co. and luckly we got to carry pretty much what we wanted as long as it was proven and we had at least 400 rounds or ammo for it each trip

  19. #19

    Default my trick with a scared little wife

    First .... Take these fellas advice and do ear plugs AND muffs.

    I bought a cheap new ($137) Romanian AK 47...they are small too, with little recoil. I stopped at a bar and got two cases of empty bottles and had her shoot them in an area that I was going to bury. She had a ball,so I got her a Rem Youth .243 and she soon took a McCall ridge Sheep then a caribou.

    I just ordered a .30 M1 Carbine from CMP for $500. Spendy for what it offers, but I'll play then trade or sell. It is awful for hunting. Probably not your best choice, but $155 for 500 rounds.

    The AK 47 is small, cheap, low recoil, easy to re-sell and fun. You can put a $25 chinese scope on it, laser etc... $4.00 for 20 rounds.

    The inexpensive Hi-point 9mm rifle is under $200, US made and very cheap to shoot and fun. No recoil. $13.00 for 50 rounds.
    My frau now likes the 6.5 x 55 Swede rifle, but who don't?

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    I have a 10-43 dated Inland. I guess everything has been said already. Sold my AR. Won't sell my M1 Carbine mainly because of the historical significance (a local rangemaster who fought at Iwo, showed me how to use the weapon when I first bought it in '94). She's never jammed with me. Bottom line, in moderate weather, and loaded with 110gr JSPs, this seems like a good weapon. Jim Cirillo of the NYPD stakeout squad saw it used to very good effect with this ammo. Wouldn't trust it in Chosin like environs, or with hardball. BTW my Armalite AR15 was accurate and a POS. Classic M16. Jammomatic. I'll never own an M16/AR15 again. It's the M1 Garand/M14 for me for serious defense work.

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