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Thread: SO? what is the deal on the primers and powder???

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default SO? what is the deal on the primers and powder???

    Okay i just want to toss this out for discussion...

    i understand a mad rush happened and a temp. shortage of stock was generated by folks buying every thing in site.


    but what is it that has caused the Manufactures from catching up?

    stores are getting 1/4 size of their orders. or none at all.

    EVERY primer manufacture is back logged with orders...HOW COME?

    as a business owner. i see this as an intentional action on some parts. but do not understand it. my feeling is that if the company was smart they would run other shifts and get the selling while th buying was hot. but raters they ration the shipments to areas that are starving.. one at a time.????

    i don't get it.

    or is there some federal?, legal, quota they can not exceed?

    all this talk of taking it away in my OP. is another reason to get the selling while the selling is good...

    Thoughts?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  2. #2

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    Millions of Americans hoarding collapsed the supply nationally, and yet still guys are buying 5 times what they need as they anticipate it getting worse. For us up here its even worse because of the shipping restrictions on powder and primers placed on us in recent years. Guys in the lower 48 are still able to buy powder and primers and shipments are flowing into stores fairly regularly. But we Alaskans are screwed! When a commercial ship with 100 connex containers on board from Seattle to Anchorage is only allowed to carry a total of 400 lbs of powder out of 100 containers, they just cant get much up here fast enough to even satisfy our demand. I have heard guys say they are still buying primers even though they have 20,000 on hand, cant compete with that kind of hoarding. I recently bought a 375 Ruger that I would like to reload for and its been quite frustrating not being able to find the reccomended powders anywhere. Frontier outfitters in Fbks got a supply of Large Rifle primers in thE other day, they were gone in less than an hour! RL15 was also gone within an hour, 10-15 1 lb containers. This kind of frustration will force guys that dont normally hoard into buying more than they need simply because theres no telling when you'll get it again. Its a vicious cycle! And dont get me started on Sportsmans Warehouse....I found out the other day that they have a stack of forms on a clipboard behind the gun counter and the only way you will get powder or primers from them is to fill out the component request list as they go through those lists before they ever put reloading stuff on the shelf. You tell em you want RL15 and when they get some in they call you, they tell you they have 10 lbs, you buy alll 10 pounds. No one else gets any RL15 off that shipment and nothing hits the shelves. If you ask me, what they are doing is BS! It should go on the shelves and if you see it, you buy it. Their list is over an inch thick of people wanting powder and primers! Anyway rant over.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Iím not normally a conspiracy minded kind of guy, but as you point out something is fishy here! CCI was said to have jumped from one shift to three back in February but there is none to be had still and that donít add up to me. I just get the feeling there is some hush-hush arm twisting going on somehow. It all just feels shady to me!!
    Andy
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    Member alaskamonte's Avatar
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    Default Manufacturing 101-

    Vince, in manufacturing one commonly gears up to build only so many widgets per quarter/year allowing for a percentage of growth.

    When one sells a years supply of widgets in a sixty day period one is screwed until suppliers can resupply.

    In the case of ammo, primer compound/primer cups/powder/bullets/brass it gets a little complicated.

    Add to this, DOD has added 1.9 million rounds of 5.56 per month to it's already substantial annual order. The war, remember?

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    From what I seen posted on other forums it appears companies are making as much powder and primers as they possibly can. One gent on the AR forum mentioned he talked to Midway and they purchased two entire truck loads of either 335 or Varget and it was gone within a day or so.
    Some of the reasons for our short supplies in Alaska is because (I been told) freight forwarding companies can only ship so much hazmat materials to Alaska on each boat. Add basic panic which is causing most people to buy anything they can find. Even if they do not have a use for it they buy it thinking it can be traded down the line.
    A couple of weeks ago I witnessed this first hand at GNG's in Anchorage. I went in looking for some Varget and watched a gentleman walk up to the counter asking if they had any gunpowder. They asked him what kind and he said it didnt matter, he would buy 5 pounds of anything cause that was all the money he had with him.
    I sense within 3-4 months you will see the shelves filling up in most stores up here simply because people will be looking at there "stashes" and thinking they finally have enough saved or they are running out of money to buy the stuff.
    First it was powder, then it was primers, and now the run is on for all "hoarders" to buy as much .22 ammo as they can.
    Companies making this stuff are not stupid. This is a bright spot in our economy and I bet they are producing as much as they possibly can.

    Don't you remember the primer scare of about 15-20 years ago? You couldnt buy a box to save your life because rumors were spreading there would be a federal law soon banning there production. When all was settled most reloaders had more primers stashed than they knew what to do with.

    What works for me is I keep 35-40 pounds of powder on hand at all times along with approximately 10-12K of assorted primers. I been doing this since the 70's and it has helped me weather panic attacks like this one before without getting stressed out. I would like to add 5-10 pounds of Varget to the stash just because it is good for many different calibers and bullet weights but I can wait.

    The above editorial is simply my opinion and not worth squat.
    Tennessee

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Guys in the lower 48 are still able to buy powder and primers and shipments are flowing into stores fairly regularly. But we Alaskans are screwed!
    I have family in AZ, NV, NM, OK, and CA who are all in the same mess that we are here. It's a bit better as they can buy small amounts online with just the $20 hazmat fee but the shelves are very empty down there also. My Dad was able to get 1000 primers and some powders at the last Crossroads of the West show in Phoenix but it what little was there was gone by noon on day one and the gates open at 10. I don't know anyone thatís hording, in fact most I know are like me and have cut way back on shooting for lack of supplies and the price the stuff is bringing now nationwide.
    Andy
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    One other guess as to what is happening. Remember that credit was very easy to get for a long time and many businesses used it to supply day to day operating capital. Now that credit has dried up I think many distributes many not have the cash they need to order much of anything. I have noticed that many things other then reloading supplies seem to be on back order way more then they should. I suspect that the managers at the distributers are falling back on there MBA's and trying to prevent the spending of any money in purchasing new product till they are really hurting for a given product. What I mean is don't buy any more of type B raingear till you are also out of types X, Y and Z. What they fail to see is that I want type B and will not buy till they have it, so I go somewhere else or hold off on my order.

  8. #8
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskamonte View Post
    Vince, in manufacturing one commonly gears up to build only so many widgets per quarter/year allowing for a percentage of growth.

    When one sells a years supply of widgets in a sixty day period one is screwed until suppliers can resupply.

    In the case of ammo, primer compound/primer cups/powder/bullets/brass it gets a little complicated.

    Add to this, DOD has added 1.9 million rounds of 5.56 per month to it's already substantial annual order. The war, remember?

    You know i considered that aspect as well,and can see a portion of that order being to blame. but i go back 20+ years with this Irag deal to the first gulf war. and have not see any shortages caused by the wars since that time, and would guess that the current only has a minimal impact on the civilian market/Availability.


    I talk to dad in AZ at least weekly. he wants my 9mm stored down there for a C/C gun. he can not find 9mm ammo any where. he can not find reloading components any where. and he is all over that state and NV as a real estate agent. i am actually going to fly Ammo down to him when i head down in june... and to me that just seems back wards ( hauling stuff from AK)

    for years i have looked at the reloading equipment, powder, primers, and wished i understood it enough to purchase it.... i don't think i have ever seen stuff NOT there. like now.

    it just seems to me that if there is a major shortage still they would look at it like a gas shortage and pump pump pump..... until the money is made and the shortage is over.


    cub is right about Frontier. they were putting out one brick at a time,, and one of the guys hauled a case out to get the brick and the guy in line bought the entire case... 10,000
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  9. #9

    Arrow powder and primers

    Brother just paid 31.50 a pound for 3031 and 70.00 for a thousand primers and was glad to get that so it's bad everywhere.Loaded ammo is out of the question for 9mm 40s&w 45acp 223 or 308 just none to be had and most of my wholesale contacts are out with no idea when they will get some in either. Hope it gets better for us all.......We live in Louisiana and Texas

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    Default ammo

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    You know i considered that aspect as well,and can see a portion of that order being to blame. but i go back 20+ years with this Irag deal to the first gulf war. and have not see any shortages caused by the wars since that time, and would guess that the current only has a minimal impact on the civilian market/Availability.


    I talk to dad in AZ at least weekly. he wants my 9mm stored down there for a C/C gun. he can not find 9mm ammo any where. he can not find reloading components any where. and he is all over that state and NV as a real estate agent. i am actually going to fly Ammo down to him when i head down in june... and to me that just seems back wards ( hauling stuff from AK)

    for years i have looked at the reloading equipment, powder, primers, and wished i understood it enough to purchase it.... i don't think i have ever seen stuff NOT there. like now.

    it just seems to me that if there is a major shortage still they would look at it like a gas shortage and pump pump pump..... until the money is made and the shortage is over.


    cub is right about Frontier. they were putting out one brick at a time,, and one of the guys hauled a case out to get the brick and the guy in line bought the entire case... 10,000

    Vince, I'm flying up in 2 weeks to go Black Bear hunting with my buddy who lives in AK and shoots a 375 H&H, I'm in Michigan flying Frontier and they will only let me bring 11lbs of ammo with me on the plane so now I'm in the process of seeing how many 375's I can bring along with my 338's and 44's, I plan on leaving my ammo there so I will have some for Moose hunting, I can't get any ammo here either but I reload and have a good stash of everything. Anyway check your airline and find out how much ammo you can take with you. Its not just you guy's its affecting everyone.

  11. #11
    Member c04hoosier's Avatar
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    Default It's bad everywhere

    I'm down in Arkansas now. I couldn't find primers anywhere down here either. Just happened to go into the store a day or so after they got their first shipment in 4 months, so I did get SOME. But I can't find any of the powders I'm looking for either. Cabelas has it, but there's the hazmat fee...

  12. #12

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    No conspiracy, no "government involvement", just the realities of production nationwide and the peculiar logistics of moving hazmat by sea to Alaska.

    It'll smooth out eventually.

    Be nice if we had a rail link to provide more bulk transport.

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    I was just at GNG's today in Anchorage. I did not take inventory but they sure did have a good supply of CCI primers. $40 per 1,000. I know for certain they had large rifle and large rifle magnum primers
    Tennessee

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    ....Guys in the lower 48 are still able to buy powder and primers and shipments are flowing into stores fairly regularly. But we Alaskans are screwed!
    We aren't doing too bad in powder recently but for a while that was tough to get. It's still a little sparse, but you can usually get what you want in 2-4 weeks, if not right off the shelf. Primers are a different story. It's been several months since I have seen ANY large rifle or magnum primers in any of the stores. When SW got some GM215M's in back before Christmas, I only bought 400 so the next guy could get some. Well I'm glad I got that many, because I have not seen them or any others since. 20,000 GM215M's came into one of the stores about a week or so ago and they were gone in 3 hours @ $50/1000.

    Hopefully the hoarders stop hoarding, and think about other guys out there.

    If you (you being anyone reading this) are a hoarder, dont tell me about it because I'll give you an ear full. YOU are THE PROBLEM, not Obama (yet).

    MR

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    I was just at GNG's today in Anchorage. I did not take inventory but they sure did have a good supply of CCI primers. $40 per 1,000. I know for certain they had large rifle and large rifle magnum primers
    i have heard they carry them. but limit the sale to 2-3 100 per customer.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Default Primers/powder

    We just got back from a trip to the 'lower' 48. Went through Washjington, Oregon, Northern Calif, Nevada and Idaho. The only place that we fond any primers in was Cabela's in Nevada. You were only able to purchase 1000 per person per day. So we got 1k on one day an the day we left we got another 1k. We were also able to get two pounds of powder. Neither the primers nor the powder were priced beyound reason. The primers were $32.00 per box. They also had a good supply of 223 ammo, some 308, and 22 long rifle. The only issue is coming through Canada, is that you are only allowed to bring 4k primers and 8 lbs of powder. I hope to go out the next few days here and see what the local stores have.
    Like everyone else I hope that things improve before too much longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    i have heard they carry them. but limit the sale to 2-3 100 per customer.
    Not true. I bought a brick of 1,000 LR non magnum primers because that is what I am using in my wife's new rifle (.308)
    Tennessee

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    I'm looking forward to the sales after the rush is over! I'm glad I "horded" in the past when things were on sale and available.

    It's hard not to get swept up in the panic when you go into several stores and there is NOTHING on the shelves. I was thinking of giving my black powder rifle a try and can't find any caps for it.

    It's also a good time to check what I have stashed away and don't use. I may like XXX powder but have tried some YYY powder and have 3/4 of a can left. Time to burn up that YYY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonardC View Post
    I'm looking forward to the sales after the rush is over!
    It's hard not to get swept up in the panic when you go into several stores and there is NOTHING on the shelves.
    I bought my first 9mm a month ago and have been looking for ammo since. I found at least 10 boxes the other day at Walmart. I told the guy behind the counter that I would take three boxes, one of his counterparts said that I should buy ten boxes. I replied that I will leave a some for the next guy. I just hope that the next guy I left some for wasn't a local gun dealer with a big markup!

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    Member Doug in Alaska's Avatar
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    I was in Fairbanks over the weekend and picked up 50 unprimed Remington 7mm RUM brass from Sportsman's Warehouse. I had a conversation with one of the counter guys and he told me Frontier Outfitters had primers a day earlier. I drove over to check it out and bought a brick of CCI Large Rifle Magnum primers. They had CCI primers in all flavors but no other brands.
    Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

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