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Thread: Am I the only one that knows the procedures for getting into Lake Hood?

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    Default Am I the only one that knows the procedures for getting into Lake Hood?

    They are published. They are there for a reason. This last Sunday I was reminded again that most don't know them, or could care less about folowing them.

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    Default Here's the link for the website


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    Member AkPacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubguy View Post
    They are published. They are there for a reason. This last Sunday I was reminded again that most don't know them, or could care less about folowing them.
    WOW....Im not one to ever post rants on someone elses opinions, but yours really makes me want to fly off the deep end. It's an awfully arrogant thing to say that because you have had a few bad encounters with pilots entering lake hood airspace that suddenly MOST people don't follow the rules. Last i knew if someone wasn't folowing the proper procedures it was up to ATC to let them know that. I agree that not everyone follows the proper procedures. Wether it is ignorance or lack of reguard for the rules i don't know, but its not your place to come on here and accuse the hundreds of pilots that fly into lake hood on a regular basis that they don't know how to follow the rules!! Anyway...Im done, get over that your the most perfect human being on the planet and get back to reality.

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    Default Ever think

    I have to agree with AKPacer, Did you ever think most of them are not use to the local procedures just because they are from somewhere else in Alaska. I would imagine, most did read the procedures, but it probably was a little busier and conjested than normal or they are use to. Have a nice day, Terry

  5. #5

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    I can appreciate frustration but isn't that what getting called to the Tower after landing is all about? Once in controlled airspace, it's their job to maintain separation and our job to remain PIC. Ever tell a Controller you you won't do something because it's not safe? It's your right. If you have a close call while in controlled space, call the Tower, file a NASA form and make a big stink. Lake Hood Tower has no problems telling someone that they're in the wrong place and doing it wrong. They'll give a proper ass chewing if it's warranted.
    I know a lot of guys that have flown here for years that have never gone in there because it's confusing and they're intimidated.
    The best thing for anyone wanting to know the landmarks associated with a certain approach is to ride along and have someone who is familar with it coach you. We all get BFR's right?
    My guess is that Cub has at least one extra seat. Mine does and I'll offer it to anyone who wants to go in and see what it's like. I'm no CFI but I can show how it works.

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    Default Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by cubguy View Post
    As a new pilot to the area, flying up this summer, I need all the information I can get, and numerous times.

    Information like this is a heck of a lot better than running into someone who isn't following procedures. And that doesn't, insinuate I haven't already tried to read everything I can get my hands on.

    Walt

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    Member rugersbro's Avatar
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    Default Need the help

    Quote Originally Posted by APEX View Post
    I can appreciate frustration but isn't that what getting called to the Tower after landing is all about? Once in controlled airspace, it's their job to maintain separation and our job to remain PIC. Ever tell a Controller you you won't do something because it's not safe? It's your right. If you have a close call while in controlled space, call the Tower, file a NASA form and make a big stink. Lake Hood Tower has no problems telling someone that they're in the wrong place and doing it wrong. They'll give a proper ass chewing if it's warranted.
    I know a lot of guys that have flown here for years that have never gone in there because it's confusing and they're intimidated.
    The best thing for anyone wanting to know the landmarks associated with a certain approach is to ride along and have someone who is familar with it coach you. We all get BFR's right?
    My guess is that Cub has at least one extra seat. Mine does and I'll offer it to anyone who wants to go in and see what it's like. I'm no CFI but I can show how it works.

    Apex, mind if I take you up on the offer when I get there?
    In fact I was trying to figure out how to get from Palmer to Kenai without getting anywhere near ANC.

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    Default

    In fact I was trying to figure out how to get from Palmer to Kenai without getting anywhere near ANC.
    That's an easy one. You just fly the eastside overflight. Hug the mountains to the east of Anchorage and you don't have to talk to anyone. It's in the supplement. Piece of cake.

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    Default Your right I'll let some one else worry about safety

    AkPAcer. What the hell, it's not my place. I doubt if most people that fly out of Lake Hood will be insulted. I know many of my neighbors there. You ever been to the meeting they have? This just does happen to me. Apparently in your mind it's someone elses job. Next time the guy in the tower thanks me for my help in avoiding an accident, I'll ***** him out for not doing his job. That's your way of thinking, not mine. Do you fly out of Lake Hood? Have you ever been number 7 for the strip? Do you know what happens at Point Mac? Do you know why they try to seperate inbound and out bound traffic? Do you know these are recommended procedures? The tower thinks that some of us may want try to avoid mid airs? It is easy to *****, but try to offer a solution. If your solution is it's not your job, stay the hell out of Lake Hood. Here's something to think about. If you are in an accident, and the other pilot "is" following recommend procedures, and you aren't, will the tower be sued, or will you?
    Last edited by cubguy; 05-05-2009 at 17:22. Reason: Comments

  10. #10
    Member AkPacer's Avatar
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    Default I just don't agree with your tactics.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubguy View Post
    AkPAcer. What the hell, it's not my place. I doubt if most people that fly out of Lake Hood will be insulted. I know many of my neighbors there. You ever been to the meeting they have? This just does happen to me. Apparently in your mind it's someone elses job. Next time the guy in the tower thanks me for my help in avoiding an accident, I'll ***** him out for not doing his job. That's your way of thinking, not mine. Do you fly out of Lake Hood? Have you ever been number 7 for the strip? Do you know what happens at Point Mac? Do you know why they try to seperate inbound and out bound traffic? Do you know these are recommended procedures? The tower thinks that some of us may want try to avoid mid airs? It is easy to *****, but try to offer a solution. If your solution is it's not your job, stay the hell out of Lake Hood. Here's something to think about. If you are in an accident, and the other pilot "is" following recommend procedures, and you aren't, will the tower be sued, or will you?
    Alright, I apologize if that was a little off the cuff....and no I did not insinuate that collision avoidance is someone else's job. It's the job of every pilot flying in VFR conditions. All i said about ATC is it is there job to hold pilots who are not following regulations accountable for there actions. I in no way said it is there job to watch our backs. There job is tough enough as it is, and i would gladly do my part to make there jobs easier any way i can.

    Do i fly out of lake hood? I have flown in and out of lake hood and merril for years on a regular basis, and yes, i know the procedures by heart...and even though i know them by heart i still carry updated versions of them in text and diagram at all times.

    Do i have a solution? My only solution to this is to hold people accountable for not following regulations. My problem with what you wrote is the way you went about it. Everyone with a pilots license knows the PIC is responsible for his/her actions when in or around congested airspace, that being said, if someone strays from those regulations lets let the authorities hold them responsible. Not start accusing everyone who flys in and out of lake hood for not following the rules.

    I also understand your frustration, and i appreciate you putting the links up, but lets do it as a way of spreading useful knowlege and not as a way of proving every other pilot on the planet is an idiot.

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    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Default Nice

    Just found more reasons not to fly around Anchorage. (Well, except for my job I guess) Seems like Hood would be a poor place to keep an airplane for alot of reasons.

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    Default I have friends that fly up in the summer

    By the time something is reported it is to late. One friend landed on 31, twice, instead of 13. He turned his radio off and didn't here the "contack the tower". One of the things both mentioned that was in the lower 48 they write you up for every thing. Is that what you want? Stray into Merrill air space get wrote up, do not repeat hold instructions, get wrote up. What happen to me last Sunday was I line up with Point Mac and the ball park. First plane coming from the Goosebay direction says he's at the boat hull. About 4 miles away from Point Mac on my left. Than a departing plane from Hood is right in front of me at Point Mac at 900 feet. He is suppose to be at the boat hull. Than the tower wants to know if I have traffic . Yea, high and to my left in bound traffic. Than I have to drop down to avoid the out bound traffic. Now, who does the tower ask if he wants to land first, not me? Than I do 50 mph over the inlet swinging wide to get some space between us. What does he do after landing? He taxis all the way to the end of 13 instead of turning off. The tower did tell him he needs to speed it up. This is BS and it happens all the time. So instead of screwing with me, why don't you apply that energy into making things better for all of us?

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    Default

    I moved my plane over to Hood Strip this spring, after being at Merrill in the summers, and on the lake in the winter, and I hear what Cubguy is saying... Ive been there, watching people forget the difference between East & West route at mid-channel, and making up altitudes as they go... (Although, I cant say Ive seen a 31 instead of a 13, yet...)

    Is it right ? Nope. Do I want ATC violating everyone who strays 50' here and there ? Nope. Its just one of those things that I know I need to stay on top of, and be vigilant enough for me PLUS the other guy who may or may not know the difference between the Boat Hull and Pt Mackenzie... (Once I was landing at Merrill, listening to another person coming in who called a 1 mile final, when the tower told him that he needed to make a right, because he was lined up for landing at Elmendorf !)

    Ive heard the tower "remind" people the difference between the East & West routes as they meander all over the place between the shorelines, and I think thats probably the best interim solution. That, and just making sure that you are fully aware that you are in a tight space, with other planes, and have the potential to find youself staring through the blades of an oncoming prop !

    Merrill, Hood, or Birchwood. They are all fairly busy airports, and they all have their share of "interesting" proceedures performed by "interesting" pilots on any given day...

    Bob K.
    Anchorage, AK

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    If you report boathull inbound for the west route you're a few years behind the times. The vast majority of Hood guys do, and are.

    Don't get me started about the poor radio habits "Approaching the boat" can mean a half mile or 10 miles. I've seen both, and everything in between. Tighten up your skills, boys.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    If you report boathull inbound for the west route you're a few years behind the times. The vast majority of Hood guys do, and are.

    Don't get me started about the poor radio habits "Approaching the boat" can mean a half mile or 10 miles. I've seen both, and everything in between. Tighten up your skills, boys.
    Inexcusable with GPS. I know not everyone can buy a 296,but a $100 GPS will work if you spend some time with it,and put in your own numbers. 1.7 miles North-west of sleeper strip[or 1.6,2.5 ect.] is a common call at Merrill 126 nowadays.

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    You don't need a gps! The reporting point is the boat or Pt Mac when that point is under your wheels. That's how it's done.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    You don't need a gps! The reporting point is the boat or Pt Mac when that point is under your wheels. That's how it's done.
    I am aware of that. I don't need a GPS to tell me where the bus barn is,or moose run. I am am saying if you are not familiar with a air space,a "I am 10 miles south east of hood, with zulu" is a lot more useful then "I think I am near the boat" listen to the radio at TKA. 100% GPS.

  18. #18

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    If all traffic were local or experienced/familiar to the area pilots I could relate to your frustrations. I'm guessing here, but I bet there are always Lake Hood "virgins" coming in. No excuse for not being prepared, but no substitution for experience either.

    Ultimately, I don't get shook up unless I know it is repeated by the same plane, but even then I don't know for sure if it is the same pilot.

    If all else fails, I always fall back to the first couple things my instructor told me... "fly the plane first" and "see and avoid"

    If I remember right, my first flight into Anc (Merrill), I was lined up on Elmendorf briefly.

  19. #19

    Default thom2249

    To the original post:

    When your at least 10 mi out call Anc approach or Lake Hood Tower and tell them your unfamiliar to the area. They will guide you right to your parking spot. Everyone goes through this. I did it 41 years ago. I've been into airports all over the US and Canada and Hood Tower is one of the most cooperative bunch of controllers I've found. Forget all the comments by the chart heads, they're showing off, you'll do just fine. Have a safe trip and don't worry.

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    I have to agree with cubguy. I do not come into Lake Hood a lot but I end up there about 30 times a season. There are a lot of pilots that report at the Boat Hull weather it is an east or west landing. Every pilot is supposed to have a supplemnt and it is there in black and white where to report and where to be. If someone is not familiar they should ask and someone would be glad to help them. I do not know the lake hood procedures well but I do know everyone should be where they are supposed to be in such busy airspace. To my kowledge Lake Hood is the only place in the US where class C airspace has a key hole cut out of it . It is just a matter of safety, just like using your radio. I know in most parts of Alaska a radio is not required but if you have one use it. It is for your safety and everyone elses.

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