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Thread: Spring hunting supplement....Not happy.

  1. #1
    Member alaskanmoosehunter's Avatar
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    Default Spring hunting supplement....Not happy.

    Just my thoughts here....

    Seems hard enough already to get drawn as it is. Now they broke up large draw areas into mini draws with only a few tags in each area area.

    That probably wouldn't be such a bad idea if fish and game wouldn't limit the hunter to only 3 draws per speicies.

    Fish and game is always complaining about bugdet short falls. Why limit the draw to only 3 per speicies? I know I would dam* sure put in for more areas if I could.

    Fish and game couldn't even get their quota with a registration hunts in the tanana flats. Now they want people to pay for draw hunts in DM771-DM773 for 460 bulls? I would think there has to be a happy medium for increased revenue and hunts that make sense.

    Maybe it's just me...Any thoughts?

    Just seems over the last few years the supplements are getting worse.
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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I like the three "wishes" plan. These new tags sure are going to break things up! I am going to spend a bunch of time trying to forecast the drawing percentages this year, that is for sure! The trick now is figuring out where everyone is going to put their 3 chances and try and guess which tags are going to be "forgotten" by the masses! The right guess and you could end up with a great draw opportunity!

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    I was hoping that the unit 13 any bull areas were going to be bigger.

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    Member alaskanmoosehunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-radford View Post
    I was hoping that the unit 13 any bull areas were going to be bigger.
    Yeah...What's going on? DM338, 10 Bulls out of the area the size of most states. Disappointed.
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    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Default 3 choices

    I'm not sure expanding the number of choices to more than 3 is a great idea. It would definitely increase revenue, but it would also give guys who want to throw the most money at it the best chances. I think it would also increase the number of unused permits because there would be people taking the shotgun approach and applying for everything without investigating whether its feasible for them to hunt it until after they draw. This happens enough already.

    Was anybody surprised that the DI404 cow bison tags were consolidated into a single either sex DI403? That'll be a $60,000 hit to ADFG's gross revenue right there.

  6. #6
    Member alaskanmoosehunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post
    I'm not sure expanding the number of choices to more than 3 is a great idea. It would definitely increase revenue, but it would also give guys who want to throw the most money at it the best chances. I think it would also increase the number of unused permits because there would be people taking the shotgun approach and applying for everything without investigating whether its feasible for them to hunt it until after they draw. This happens enough already.

    Was anybody surprised that the DI404 cow bison tags were consolidated into a single either sex DI403? That'll be a $60,000 hit to ADFG's gross revenue right there.
    I think 4 or 5 choices would be reasonable. I don't like the shotgun approach either. But $20-25 bucks out of a guys pocket total for a few more chances I wouldn't consider who has the most money wins.
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    Member garnede's Avatar
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    I think that by breaking it up they give people more opportunity to draw. It means the same number of people are drawing against a wider number of permits. It might stink if you are the used to apply for 3 large areas with hundreds of permits, but if you normaly apply for areas wit one or two dozen permits, then some of those people who have applied for those will be drawn to the newre areas, I hope.
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    I understand your concerns ....but please try to get involved up front.....attend some AC meetings and put in a day at a BOG meeting to better understand what goes into these regulations and hunts.

    The Delta Bison Working Group has met several times recently to gather testimony for the new five year management plan. A few farmers show up but where are the sportsmen? The President of Delta Chapter Alaska Farm Bureau has stated that he wants the herd reduced to pre-1928 [year of introduction] levels.....ZERO BISON!

    So please keep this in mind when your applying for your bison drawing hunt....GET INVOLVED!

    I'll get off my soap box now.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskanmoosehunter View Post
    Yeah...What's going on? DM338, 10 Bulls out of the area the size of most states. Disappointed.
    The 50"/4 brow tine/spike/fork general season is still going forth, so there's no lack of opportunity.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    The 50"/4 brow tine/spike/fork general season is still going forth, so there's no lack of opportunity.
    ^^^what he said^^^

    BTW who the heck is putting in for the hunter creek cow hunts DM441? There is only about 30 people that even have access to that hunt without hiking in from Eklutina lake which by all means if you are tough enough to do that then you deserve it!!!! I have hiked the heck out of the Knik river side of the mountains and I saw exactly 1 moose up there and it was way up high and heading back into Hunter creek. Did I mention that the trail I was on was only accessible from private property (we built it)? I have to think that this hunt is one of those that looks great on a map so people put in for it and waste the tag. I know the land owners are getting tired of having fully loaded wheelers driving up their driveways then looking surprised that they are on private property!
    There hasn't been any public access directly to the hunter creek drainage since about 1994.

  11. #11
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Exclamation drawings on mostly private land...

    yep, the homer cow hunt is the same ... there are only a couple public areas, and they are in the general hunt too... so they get hit hard.
    if you don't own the land or have access to someone else's it's a tough hunt.
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  12. #12
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Default The info is available

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    ^^^what he said^^^

    BTW who the heck is putting in for the hunter creek cow hunts DM441?

    Download the list right here:
    http://wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm...p.listing_main

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    From a management standpoint, it allows F&G to try and target more closely the harvest. For example, I believe last year DM778 was an area covering from past the Chena flood control plain to up Chena Hot Springs road quite a ways, encompassing both the south fork of the chena and other areas.

    But if most people only hunt right off the road system, and the 'surplus' is evenly distributed throughout that DM area, then (1) you'll probably not manage the herd effectively as only the moose near the road get hit (possibly leading to a decline in overall productivity as moose say on the south fork of the Chena are relatively unharvested and continue to tax their habitat) and (2) possibly lower hunter success ratio due to a certain people hitting the road only.

    I realize that moose move around a bit, but F&G says that some moose are 'year round residents of an area', which would seem to support my point on habitat taxation...I also realize that part of the reason for a cow hunt is to try and minimize moose/vehicle collisions and is not related to maximum sustainable yield.

    So if you can get the people who only want to road hunt to apply in areas with roads (assuming people understand the area maps, I know), then people who are more inclined to hunt non-road areas can apply in other areas. And maybe you see a (1) and increase in hunt success rates and (2) more people drawn. Who knows on those last 2...

    Also, I would actually prefer a little more planning time. Releasing the results in June/July (?) doesn't exactly give me a lot of heads up if I win a moose permit to hunt with my family in FBX...Maybe it's just me, but leave can sometimes be a bit tricky...

    It's a bummer about the private land & drawing permits, but that's going to happen as more of AK goes to private hands. Last season a lot of the land in the winter cow hunt near Delta was like that, and to the best of my knowledge the Delta Bison hunt has been like that for years....Guess you can apply elsewhere or try and deal with the landowners, same options as always.

    Anyways, my .02...
    Last edited by Dr.No; 04-30-2009 at 19:37. Reason: addressing private land point

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link, for some reason the connection I am using doesn't like the ADF&G site or I would have looked into that earlier, I am curious how many people are actually successful on that one!

    Good points there Dr No: I would also add to that regarding some reports that I have read (can't access them right now for link). There are multiple migratory patterns that are ages old in 20A. It is not universal though, as in some moose migrate and others are static to a particular region. These migratory patterns allow areas to remain viable because a large portion of the moose migrate out of that area during the winter when the most damage is done to browse. Studies show that these migratory routes are passed on to calves from their mothers. Inadvertently killing large numbers of these migratory cows may actually cause population flare ups of nonmigratory moose in areas that cannot sustain them over the winter.

    This is a dynamic region with semi limited access, areas with easier access tend to have the largest number of moose harvested. In the event that a migratory route passes through one of these high access corridors it is highly likely that too many migratory moose will be killed which may cause unrecoverable damage to the population dynamic and carrying capacity of the region. THIS WOULD BE VERY BAD! This new zone breakdown should assist ADF&G in insuring that doesn't happen. At least I sure hope it does

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    LuJon....Yeah, I knew that there were resident and migratory moose, but I didn't know quite the level of detail that you do...

    I think mainly I'm happy about the change in format because there are some areas that I have put in for around Fairbanks in the past that I have honestly been not that excited about...this breaks up the one area I do like into three pieces, so I figure that at the very least I'm shooting my three shots on the area that I want to be in in the first place...

    That and I really like the more advance notice before a hunt. The extra time will really be helpful for trying to get people together. The only time I won in the past things fell apart because there was too little notice (I know; a couple of months, but sometimes it works out that way...)

  16. #16

    Unhappy

    First off, I am new to Alaska and I am dishing out the cash to hunt bear and moose. I love to hunt and I'll pay for non-resident this year. Next year I will be a resident so the cost will be nothing compared to this year. I hope nobody takes this wrong but I have never hunted another state who's regulations and draws were so complicated in my entire life. I have hunted a lot of states. Maybe it's me and the fact that this is my first year in Alaska but how in the world can you take an area the size of say Rhode Island, break it down into little management units and expect to come anywhere close to a managment goal. Christ, I want to know how they even come up with meanginful estimated harvest numbers that mean anything at all considering the small numbers of field staff. This state is so huge that you can't tell me that they have a grip on the number of animals out there that comes even close to what is actually there then to take that and break it down into tiny units. On top of all this how in the world do they come up with these boundries? I feel like I need to spend another week reading the regulations/boundries/special permits bla bla bla before I am even qualified to LOOK at my rifles in Alaska let along take them on a actual hunt.

    Like I said, maybe it's because I am new to Alaska and in a year or two I will look back on this post and think how stupid I was to post this..

    WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW! Cheechako shock I guess or I am just stupid and just don't understand..

    How can anyone sourdough or not understand this stuff?

  17. #17

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    Your frusteration is not unfounded. The regs and draws can be confusing. But a lot of you questions can be answered simply by calling ADF&G. I realize it shouldn't have to be that way, that is your sure fire way to get correct answers regarding your questions. Also you may want to write down the date, time, and who you spoke with regarding your question.

    As for boundaries, most (but not all) are setup along rivers, tops of a mountain range or some other physical features to make it somewhat easier for folks to tell what unit/subunit one is in. I realize this is all doesn't help the situation. The goodnews after a few years of repeated reading the regs and draws it does start to make a little more sense.

    However, I feel WAY over my head when looking at putting in for draws outside. Preference points, first season, second season, and what not is confusing to me cause all I have ever known is AK regs and draws which seem simplier to me. I guess its what you are used to. So stick with it and get out and enjoy different parts of Alaska, the more familar you are with more areas, the more options you will have confidence in hunting different areas in the future.

    Good luck.

  18. #18
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dvarmit View Post
    First off, I am new to Alaska and I am dishing out the cash to hunt bear and moose. I love to hunt and I'll pay for non-resident this year. Next year I will be a resident so the cost will be nothing compared to this year. I hope nobody takes this wrong but I have never hunted another state who's regulations and draws were so complicated in my entire life. I have hunted a lot of states. Maybe it's me and the fact that this is my first year in Alaska but how in the world can you take an area the size of say Rhode Island, break it down into little management units and expect to come anywhere close to a managment goal. Christ, I want to know how they even come up with meanginful estimated harvest numbers that mean anything at all considering the small numbers of field staff. This state is so huge that you can't tell me that they have a grip on the number of animals out there that comes even close to what is actually there then to take that and break it down into tiny units. On top of all this how in the world do they come up with these boundries? I feel like I need to spend another week reading the regulations/boundries/special permits bla bla bla before I am even qualified to LOOK at my rifles in Alaska let along take them on a actual hunt.

    Like I said, maybe it's because I am new to Alaska and in a year or two I will look back on this post and think how stupid I was to post this..

    WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW! Cheechako shock I guess or I am just stupid and just don't understand..

    How can anyone sourdough or not understand this stuff?

    well to ease your mind... I feel the same trying to head south .. i tried to read WI regs once and got lost... AZ the same way..

    AK is a big state with lots of units. the regs are easy one you toss out the parts you don't need... for me that is units 1-12 / 14-19 / 21-26 most years... as i only hunt 13 and 20 any more. the rest of the book... well there is lots of good info in the first 30 some pages i re read it every year to refresh my self. ... and doulbe check things if taking a take on a by catch .. like sheep for me. i am not looking or them.. but they are there and if i got the chance type of deal....

    focas on what and where you hunt and the regs get a ton easier..

    there is also they are coming up with new things every year.. so even we need to double triple read them.

    would be more then happy to help if ever needed.

    Vince
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  19. #19

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    Appreciate the comments guys. I have a buddy of mine that thought Wyoming was easy to understand and once he got up here he realize it was much more complicated than Alaska..

    I come from PA and the entire state has the same seasons with the exception of Turkey and they are by clearly defined units. Doe permits are drawn by units as well but other than that everything comes in and goes out at the same time, bag limits are the same.

    I have found Alaska has a lot of shock moments when you first get here but they are all worth it.. I just love this state...

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