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Thread: where to get a barrell Fluted?

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    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    Default where to get a barrell Fluted?

    have a 300 wm ruger hawkeye...stainless....great rifle but heavier than id like, and i want to get it fluted to shed some extra weight....anyone know where i can get this done in the anchorage/valley area for a reaonsable price? and what would a reasonable price be?

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    Can't answer your specific questions but am guessing about the most you will save would be 4 ounces (if your lucky).
    If your rifle wears the Ruger laminate stock an aftermarket stock would most likely be a better choice for weight savings.
    Tennessee

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    it has the synthetic stock, and the weight loss would be more to the range of 14-18 ounces. 18 ounces is what my dad and his gunsmith friend drilled off of my 30-06 mauser 98 barrel.....paid $70 but that was in north idaho so figure twice that here....where do you think i could get a lighter stock?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    have a 300 wm ruger hawkeye...stainless....great rifle but heavier than id like, and i want to get it fluted to shed some extra weight....anyone know where i can get this done in the anchorage/valley area for a reaonsable price? and what would a reasonable price be?
    Somethings to consider. Fluting your barrel will stress the steel and it will change the dynamics/harmonics of your barrel for a few ounces of weight savings. IMO, you would be better off shaving weight elsewhere such as the stock.

    I know that's not the question you were asking, but I thought I would mention it.

    - MR

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    I doubt you can remove 14-18 ounces by fluting a stock Ruger barrel without making it unsafe.
    Lots of stocks options, McMillan Edge, MPI. HS precision, etc.
    Tennessee

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    I donít mind a rifle up to 10 pounds or a bit more, but if I had a guy in Idaho that did me a good job once I would ship it to him. It's a tricky thing to do correctly and have it still shoot so I would want a smith with a proven record like that. As for your stock there are things you can do to pair it down also like hog it out under the but plate and fill with urethane foam. Another trick is to hog it out under the barrel and bed an aluminum bar in the forearm area and bed the action back in over that.
    Andy
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    Honestly? Good luck trimming 14-18 ounces off the barrel. Dropping a pound +/- on a stock Ruger factory barrel ain't gonna happen.

    And to clarify another poster, McMillan doesn't offer the EDGE technology in their stocks for the Ruger's due to the angled center bolt.

    And, MontanaRifleman, I find that hard to believe, sorry. I'd like to see some evidence/facts to back-up that claim about stress on a fluted barrel. I've read and heard the exact opposite regarding same.

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    Interesting comments about "stress" and conflicting results as well.
    If you go to Lilja's web site they say it is ok to flute a barrel. If you visit Shilens, they say it is not. So, who do you believe?
    Visited McMillans web site as well and they do not offer the edge for a Ruger, my mistake.
    Tennessee

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    Fluting will not creat stresses in the barrel however it will cause existing stresses in the barrel to show up.

    When a barrel is made by hammer forging or button rifleing stresses are created in the steel. These stresses may be removed by heating the barrel and cooling it in a controlled manor (stress relieving), however this may or may not be done on your factory barrel. Most of the high end barrel makers stress releive there barrels so they can be fluted.

    If your barrel has not been stress relived, the stresses balance each other and keep the barrel its proper shape and size. By removing some of the stressed steel the stresses in the barrel will no longer balance each other and the barrel may change size and shape.

    For example: suppose the inside of the barrel is under a compression stress and would like to grow larger. It would be contained by the outside of the barrel being under a tension stress and wanting to get smaller. Now these stresses are ballanced with each other in a factory barrel and the bore size will stay correct. However, if you remove some of the outer steel by making it smaller all the way around or with flutes. The amount of steel trying to make the barrel smaller will be decreased. This lets the inner steel expand slightly till a new balance between stresses is reached. The problem is the barrel is now slightly larger.

    This is why many 22 target barrels have a larger diameter mussel. By removeing steel on the outside the barrel grows a little to reach the correct diameter. However the mussel is not reduced in size which causes the bore to remain a little smaller making a slight choke, which is supposed to help accureacy.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Here is a crash course on stress from a former aero-space machinist with a gun addiction . . . me. Any machine work makes stress as the steel is cut. The action of the tool severing the steel work hardens the surface in a similar manner to case hardening. This stress hardening will go .0005” to .010” deep depending on tool sharpness, kind of steel, coolant used, angle the coolant contacts the steel, and 10,000 other things. So if one flute is cut muzzle to breach and another breach to muzzle you will get a bent barrel every time. Some of the things this stress will do is make the part move in the fixture as it’s getting cut changing the depth of cut on you as you go. Twist as you cut changing the tool path as you go down a long slander part, and so on. Steps can be taken to counter stress like the use of good fixtures and the use of vibrating tables to relive the stress between machining operations.

    No matter what you do stress from machining will alter the shape of the barrel inside, but the true question is how much will it affect how the gun shoots? It will curtly change the point of impact, but if well done and no bad harmonics are encountered from fluting it should repeat at the new point of impact just fine. All the variables say that barrels will be ruined in the process of learning what works with certain barrels and what does not, hence the need to only let someone with a proven track record do it. I have done this work on about 200 barrels myself, but they were all the exact same 50 BMG blanks we used for Maddi-Griffen kits. I would not attempt a one-off custom job myself since I don’t have enough experience with other barrels.
    Andy
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  11. #11

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    I was also going to use Lilja's and Shilen sites as references after doing a search on the subject, which I have researched in the past, which led to my comment. I probably should have said.... It is *reported* that fluting will stress your barrel. Here's a comment from Gale MacMillan...

    In the late seventies there were a group of shooters that were visiting
    our barrel shop got into a discussion as to why a fluted barrel wouldn't
    shoot. They had been tried and never worked out. You never saw one at
    a match. As a challenge my brother made two using methods what we
    thought would have the least adverse effect on accuracy. We put one on
    Pats bench rest rifle and gave one to a friend (Harold Broughton of Big
    Springs TX) Pat went to the IBS nationals that year and set two world
    records and won the nationals and Harold went to the NBRSA nationals and won them with his fluted barrel. That proved that they would shoot if they were fluted at the right point in the manufacturing process and it has been a growing fad since that time. I always felt that they shoot in spite of being fluted but as long as shooters will pay a barrel maker $1.50 a minute to flute one you will see them on the line.

    Gale McMillan

    http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/barrel_fluting.html
    This is basically my view... If a barrel is to be flutted it should be flutted by the barrel maker during the barrel making process. Otherwise, IMHO, you are rolling the dice.

    As for weigth savings... the most you will save is about .5 lbs and proboably a little less. A typical factory sporter barrel is in the #2-#3 contour range. Here's Lilja's estimation on weight savings on a #5 contour....

    The weight removed by fluting depends on the caliber, contour and finish length. On a typical #5 contour with a 26" finish length, in .30 caliber fluting would remove about .50 pounds, reducing it to about the weight of a #4 contour.

    http://www.riflebarrels.com/products...ion_rifles.htm
    Is it really worth it in $$$ and risk of ruining a barrel to get it flutted to save yourself a half pound of wieght? I personally like heavy barrels, because on average, they are more accurate and reliable. So that is my bias.

    Factory sporter barrels are already minimal diameter and whippy. Flutting them will only make them more whippy, if not worse.

    AD Fields, thankd for your insight.

    Dont mean to rain on anyones parade, but I think it's good to look at the facts before taking action.

    My additional $.03

    -MR

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    Member Dan in Alaska's Avatar
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    I have four rifles with fluted barrels. One is a factory Remington LVSF barrel. The other three barrels (Shilen, Bartlein, and Hart) started life as round barrel blanks and were fluted after the fact. All four of my "fluted" rifles shoot exceptionally well.

    This is a small sample, I know, but I'm not afraid of having a competent gunsmith flute a barrel for me. I don't even give it a second thought. I just don't see it as being an issue on a hunting rifle.




    As others have suggested, however, barrel fluting is not a very effect way to trim weight. To trim weight, I'd first look at the stock, scope, and scope mounts.

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    Give Alaska Custom firearms a call. 907 349-4888. i have not used them but have seen their work, looks good to me.

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    The reason to flute a barrel is that it acts like a bull barrel without all the weight. To do this itís best to start with a bull barrel blank and not a tapered barrel with no mass at the muzzle.
    Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    The reason to flute a barrel is that it acts like a bull barrel without all the weight. To do this itís best to start with a bull barrel blank and not a tapered barrel with no mass at the muzzle.
    Or, if money savings was a concern, just buy a #1 or #2 contoured barrel from the get-go.

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