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Thread: 22 Sabot Load Questions

  1. #1

    Question 22 Sabot Load Questions

    Anybody have any experience loading 22 sabot loads in your 30-cal rifle? I got some plastic sabots for use with 60gr 22 bullets in 30-cal rifles. Tried to load some up tonight for my 30-30, but with very little success. The sabots have such a sharp heel that if the case neck is not flared a little, then the sabot won't go into the case. It just mashes down and crumples the case neck instead, destroying the case.
    And load data? Well...they just give a "computer-generated reference data" loading sheet, no real shooting bench feedback and experience. They just say to start with "light loads" and work up. Ok, while that may sound good, what is a light load for a sabot? 5% under? 10% under? 15% under? Why didn't they go to the shooting bench, and find out for us if their "computer-generated reference data" loads work? How hard could it be to send one of their workers to the range for a few days, and test their data before selling their product to the public? I get this feeling they are kinda guessing a bit at this...
    I don't care about maximum velocity, just something that will group reasonably is fine. If I can get 2800-3000fps or so, then that is good enough. I was going to use IMR4198; is there a better powder for these extremely light bullets in a 30-30? How about the 30-06?
    This is the outfit I got the sabots from: http://www.eabco.com/Reports/report04.html
    If you used these (or any other brand sabots), what did you think of them?

    Thanks,
    Marshall/Ak

  2. #2
    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    I have not got around to working up loads for the 30-30 yet, but have established a “go to” load for the 30-06 and it is shown below in yellow high light. Brass was Winchester brand that was neck sized only. Note that my bullet choice was 53 grain weight. Adjustments may be needed for your 60 grain bullets…

    A few pointers for you:

    Don’t use boat tail bullets, accuracy sucks when used with the sabots

    Don’t try to crimp, just seat them to depth and call it good.

    COL seems to be critical to accuracy, experiment to get the best results. I am out of town at the minute so I cant go look at one, but I think I seat them with about 1/8” of the petal portion of the sabot below the lip of the case….

    Start the sabots (with bullets already seated in them) into the case by hand.

    Regarding the 30-06 loads, velocities over 4060 fps produced larger groups so I backed down to the 52 grain load. My accuracy is about 1.5” for 5 shots at 100 yards. This is comparable to 5 shot groups with 180 grain bullets fired from this particular rifle. Best 5 shot groups with this load have gone into an inch, but are not easy to repeat at will.

    I found EAB’s load data to be lacking in every way imaginable…. Seems their program is unable to determine the proper propellants.

    Regarding the 30-30, there are a number of .22 caliber wildcats based off of the 30-30 case. Bullet weights for those wildcats should be close to the combined weight of bullet + sabot, and then one could substitute that load data backing down a couple of grains and working up from there. At least that is my plan. Do some google searches and you will likely come up with some 22-30-30 wildcat load data. When you do, please post back and save me a step eh!

    That is all I can think of at the moment, but will dig around in my notes when I return from the land of gun hating liberals…….


    Bullet BrandBullet StyleBullet WeightPowder BrandPowder TypeCharge WeightPrimerAverage VelocitySierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419848.5 grWLR3670 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419849.5 grWLR3746 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419850 grWLR3848 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419850.5 grWLR3891 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419851.5 grWLR3995 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419851 grWLR3999 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419852 grWLR4060 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419852 grWLR4060 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419852.5 grWLR4122 fpsSierraHP & Sabot53 gr (22 Cal)IMR419853 grWLR4164 fps

    Ok…… seems tables do not up load to the web site very well!

    The “go to” 30-06 load is as follows:

    Case = Win
    Primer = WLR
    Bullet = Sierra 53 grain hollow point
    Powder = IMR 4198
    Charge = 48.5 gr = 3670 fps, 52 gr = 4060 fps, 53 gr = 4164 fps
    COL = 2.93

    Hope this helps……
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

  3. #3

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    Finally...a little progress with the 30-30/22 sabots...and I took some of Alangaq's advice (thanks Alangaq!)
    I ran a few cases through a Lyman 30-cal neck flaring die (meant for starting cast bullets) so that there was just the slightest flare, started the sabots in by hand, then seated the rest of the way with a standard seating die.
    The sabot manufacturer load data suggests 32grs of IMR4198, but they also said to start "low". I decided to err way over on the side of safety, and only put 25grs of powder in. (a 20% reduction!) Won't have a chance until this weekend to group test and chrono them...
    Here's a pic of one of them, with a Remington factory-loaded 30-06/22 sabot under it for comparison. (I think they loaded thiers with 55gr bullets, but not sure, and I don't know if they are still available) The sabots themselves look practically identical, except for color.

    Marshall/Ak

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    I noticed that the Accurate Arms reloading book has some sabot loads listed. I saw it in the 7.62x39mm load data. They might have other sabot loads. Good luck with this project!

  5. #5
    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Interesting……. The sabots that I received from EAB were gray in color? All the factory ones I have seen were the brown, but you are apparently much “cooler” than I am with RED ones! Nice work! I suspect you will find your reduced load too slow for your liking, but as you state, it is always peace of mind and good practice to start low and work up…..

    Kindly report back with your results!
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

  6. #6

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    Alangaq was right: the loads were too slow. Here's the chrono readings from 6 rounds, loaded with 60gr Hornadys and 25grs IMR4198:

    2248, 2283, 2233, 2364, 2335, 2339

    Way too slow. And notice how those velocity readings tended to go up as the barrel heated? Never bothered to accuracy test them...no point in it, as the velocities are unacceptable...even for a 30-30.


    But here is the REAL problem I encountered: they all were HARD to chamber...had to really push on the bolt. (yes, a bolt. I have a Springfield bolt-acton 30-30) All the fired cases have about half of the cartridge neck ends SHINY where they scraped against the chamber neck walls. The shiny portion of the necks correspond exactly with the seating depth of the sabots. I have NEVER seen this problem before...not in 45+ years of reloading...
    Either I have an unusually tight chamber, or those sabots are expanding the case necks way too darn much. Judging from how hard they were to seat, I kinda think it is the sabots...and not the gun. I don't have this problem reloading with regular 30-cal bullets...
    Doubt if I'll try any more, due to that problem.

    Oh...also tried some factory 170gr ammo...all worked flawlessly, no chambering problems such as with the sabots. Here's some readings I took:
    Remington: 2240fps
    Winchester: 2171fps
    Frontier: 2280fps
    Federal: 2109fps

    This doesn't mean Frontier is "the best", Remington is "2nd best", etc. It just means on these particular lot numbers Frontier happened to give the highest velocity. Take different lot numbers and all that can easily change...and quite often does.

    Marshall/Ak

  7. #7
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    What do the sabots measure with a bullet in them? Sure sounds like they are too thick.
    Andy
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    What do the sabots measure with a bullet in them? Sure sounds like they are too thick.

    They mic out at .310", which shouldn't cause the problem described, but perhaps they change diameter somehow during the seating process: they all seated HARD...


    Marshall/Ak

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