Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: It is time for a survey, 450 Marlin & 45/70 owners please apply!

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    PA.
    Posts
    152

    Default It is time for a survey, 450 Marlin & 45/70 owners please apply!

    I would like to do a survey to collect real data on the performance of the 450 Marlin and/or 45/70. There are a lot of Alaskans with experience with these two rounds. I will post the results, or you can monitor them yourself. The shared information may help those deciding on what to bring to Alaska, or it can add to what you already know and use there already. We collectively get real life data and bypass the rumors.

    1. Which caliber do you use, the 450 or 45/70? a. which specific bullet do you shoot, have shot, or have personally seen take an animal?
    2. If you have taken a moose or a bear: a. How far was the shot? b. How far did the animal go? c. How did the bullet perform—expansion and/or penetration?
    3. Do you shoot factory or semi-factory rounds? a. If so, which brand and which of the two calibers in question do you use? b. How do you rate these factory/semi-factory rounds as far as reliability?
    4. Do you shoot your own hand loads? a. If so, which caliber? b. What primer and powder do you use? c. Is your choice of rounds easy to make feed and reliable, and do have any advice or tips on making them so?
    5. In regard to factory or semi-factory loads, where in Anchorage do you purchase them and which cartridges are they?
    6. How would you improve the cartridge if you had input with the factory?

    I asked for both the 450 Marlin and the 45/70 since they are almost twins’ performance wise in most circumstances. I am thinking that the results of bullet performance may possibly save someone from experiencing negative results from a poor and uneducated choice, which can be fatal or painful.

  2. #2
    Member Alangaq's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hey! If I look thru this empty beer bottle, I think I can see Russia from here!!!
    Posts
    1,232

    Default

    I would like to do a survey to collect real data on the performance of the 450 Marlin and/or 45/70. There are a lot of Alaskans with experience with these two rounds. I will post the results, or you can monitor them yourself. The shared information may help those deciding on what to bring to Alaska, or it can add to what you already know and use there already. We collectively get real life data and bypass the rumors.

    1. Which caliber do you use, the 450 or 45/70? a. which specific bullet do you shoot, have shot, or have personally seen take an animal?

    45/70, never shot a critter with it yet.
    2. If you have taken a moose or a bear: a. How far was the shot? b. How far did the animal go? c. How did the bullet perform—expansion and/or penetration?

    N/A
    3. Do you shoot factory or semi-factory rounds? a. If so, which brand and which of the two calibers in question do you use? b. How do you rate these factory/semi-factory rounds as far as reliability?

    Have shot the Remington factory load with the jacketed 405 grain bullet. Very mild load and reliable.
    4. Do you shoot your own hand loads? a. If so, which caliber? b. What primer and powder do you use? c. Is your choice of rounds easy to make feed and reliable, and do have any advice or tips on making them so?

    Yes, 45/70, WLR, RL#7, Yes, Yes, not really
    5. In regard to factory or semi-factory loads, where in Anchorage do you purchase them and which cartridges are they?

    N/A
    6. How would you improve the cartridge if you had input with the factory?

    Increase the supply of all components, decrease the cost of all components!

    I asked for both the 450 Marlin and the 45/70 since they are almost twins’ performance wise in most circumstances. I am thinking that the results of bullet performance may possibly save someone from experiencing negative results from a poor and uneducated choice, which can be fatal or painful.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

  3. #3

    Default

    1. Which caliber do you use, the 450 or 45/70? a. which specific bullet do you shoot, have shot, or have personally seen take an animal?
    45/70, I prefer a 400 gr jackted round nose by Hornady. Good all around aplication. Moose, Bear, Caribou
    2. If you have taken a moose or a bear: a. How far was the shot? <125 yards b. How far did the animal go? Not very, typically less than 20-30 yards (Moose) c. How did the bullet perform—expansion and/or penetration? Excellent! Better than Sierra or Speer.
    3. Do you shoot factory or semi-factory rounds? No a. If so, which brand and which of the two calibers in question do you use? b. How do you rate these factory/semi-factory rounds as far as reliability?
    4. Do you shoot your own hand loads? Yes a. If so, which caliber? 45/70 b. What primer and powder do you use? Std primer, AA 2015, VT-133 (?) c. Is your choice of rounds easy to make feed and reliable, and do have any advice or tips on making them so? Lots of practice shooting and reloading!
    5. In regard to factory or semi-factory loads, where in Anchorage do you purchase them and which cartridges are they?
    6. How would you improve the cartridge if you had input with the factory?

    I love the big bore rifles but I have killed anything I've shot at with the '06 and .300 Savage too. It's all about placement not caliber. I have a preference for shooting under 200 yards and frequently it winds up being less than 100 yards. I know how to shoot, I just prefer trying to get close to the animal. It's more challenging trying myself against their senses.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    PA.
    Posts
    152

    Default

    Thanks for the two replies, but this is not enough to complete an accurate survey... Oh well... Thanks again.

  5. #5
    Member tzieli22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Eagle River AK
    Posts
    589

    Default Proud American...

    Not sure why folks don't want to give the stats but here are mine...

    45/70 Marlin both in the GG SS and the standard.

    3 moose, 2 bear (blackies) all with 2 shots each to stop within 10 yards

    400 grn speers for all the game but am switching to 540 and 420 grn Garrett Super hardcast for Brown bears and the like.

    Always shoot reloads with CC large rifle primers 3031 50 grns for the reloads and the garretts are all factory.

    Improve the cartridge... Hmm, stop a brown bear at 20 ft. if it will do that, it is the perfect round, if not, I hope my new 416 ruger will due the trick. Find out after 5/18/09 as I might have a story to tell...

    Tony

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Palmer Ak
    Posts
    106

    Default

    45/70 have four different ones. game 1moose 1 black bear . don't shot factory loads at all . 300 gr hard cast straight thru both massive damage, heart lungs gone, on the moose broke ribs on both sides and the off side shoulder. Have a supply of brass on hand , and cast my own bullets ,use win primers and IMR 3031 powder. I'd like to see a 300 to 350 gr spire point to use in the single shot without going to the premium bullets.

  7. #7
    Member IceKing02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    552

    Default Some good performance, some not so good...

    So here's another three data points for your study...

    1. Which caliber do you use? The 450 Marlin from Model 94 Winchester.
    a. which specific bullet do you shoot, have shot, or have personally seen take an animal? Hornady 350g FN factory load (x4shots) and Hornady 325g LeverEvolution (x2shots).

    2. If you have taken a moose or a bear: a. How far was the shot? b. How far did the animal go? c. How did the bullet perform—expansion and/or penetration?
    I've only had the fortune to shoot three deer with this cartridge. I've recounted the story here before but the short version is that the first blacktail deer took the initial shot in the chest behind the shoulder. It was hit so hard it was blown down off the hill upon which it was standing. Unfortunately the bullet came apart and the remaining 220grains of lead went underneath the lungs, hit the opposite shoulder and caromed back to the centerline, lying underneath the skin at the sternal notch. The second bullet, shot through heavy alders went one inch behind the diaphragm and blew about 1/3 of the upper intestinal tract out of the four inch exit hole. The third shot was taken in the same heavy cover and was about four inches right of center, hitting the mid upper thigh and traveling down the length of the femur, breaking the leg into multiple pieces before exiting at the ankle. The fourth shot was placed at the base of the skull when I tracked down the deer and it was trying to make its way across a beaver dam...I was NOT impressed with the bullet performance of the inital shot with my expectations being that this was a "stopper" cartridge and I was in Afognak Island (BIG) bear country. I'm committed to rolling my own bullets for bears after that experience.
    The second deer took one shot to the chest with the LeverEvolution bullet and sprang six feet into the air only to land on its back looking like a dead cockroach. 1" entry hold, 4" exit hole in the same location on the chest from the same distance (about 25yds).
    The third deer took a LeverEvolution bullet in the head at 172yards...and it looked like somebody drove a train between its eyes...not a picture for the faint of heart.

    3. Do you shoot factory or semi-factory rounds? a. If so, which brand and which of the two calibers in question do you use? b. How do you rate these factory/semi-factory rounds as far as reliability?
    See above...I now shoot LeverEvos for 100yds plus and handloaded TSX bullets or 405gr hardcast for close work. Haven't had the pleasure of trying them out just yet...but really looking forward to it.

    4. Do you shoot your own hand loads? a. If so, which caliber? b. What primer and powder do you use? c. Is your choice of rounds easy to make feed and reliable, and do have any advice or tips on making them so?
    See John Taffin's 2001 article on the .450 Marlin, or PM Murphy for the best in load data, or just use Barnes/Hornady/Nosler factory recipes...I haven't had a single problem in feeding these rounds to either of my model 94s but I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, either. For things that might bite me I'm more interested in reliable performance than high-zoot performance. I originally got into the .450 Marlin for the reason that I didn't handload at the time and wanted a more hopped-up ".45-70 Gov't" than my brother had...

    5. In regard to factory or semi-factory loads, where in Anchorage do you purchase them and which cartridges are they?
    Get your ammo anywhere in Anchor-town. Got mine at Wally World originally...

    6. How would you improve the cartridge if you had input with the factory?
    Get a bonded-core bullet in a factory loading.

    Cheers,

    IceKing02

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    I think the problem is its been hashed over a hundred times.Alot was covered when the same poster asked who has killed a bear with these rounds.A simple search will give enough info as to what folks are useing

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    31

    Default

    1. Which caliber do you use, the 450 or 45/70?
    45/70
    a. which specific bullet do you shoot, have shot, or have personally seen take an animal?
    350 Grain Kodiak, 405 grain Remington
    2. If you have taken a moose or a bear: a. How far was the shot?
    50 feet to 125 yards
    b. How far did the animal go?
    Moose have just dropped where they were hit - I have not had to go chasing any.
    c. How did the bullet perform—expansion and/or penetration?
    Very good. The recovered bullets showed good expansion and held together well. Most of the bullets are not recovered - they keep going...
    3. Do you shoot factory or semi-factory rounds?
    Both
    a. If so, which brand and which of the two calibers in question do you use?
    Buffalo Bore
    b. How do you rate these factory/semi-factory rounds as far as reliability?
    Excellent - no failures of any kind.
    4. Do you shoot your own hand loads?
    Yes, for practice. No reason not to use handloads for hunting and I will be using them this fall.
    a. If so, which caliber?
    45/70
    b. What primer and powder do you use?
    Federal for large rifle primer brass, Rem for small rifle primer brass. H4198 for the powder.
    c. Is your choice of rounds easy to make feed and reliable, and do have any advice or tips on making them so?
    I like the Lee factory crimp to finish the round. Other than that, nothing special. I like to use the small rifle primer brass - no particular reason.
    5. In regard to factory or semi-factory loads, where in Anchorage do you purchase them and which cartridges are they?
    Great Northern for the Buffalo Bore 350Grain Kodiak Bonded
    6. How would you improve the cartridge if you had input with the factory?
    There is one problem with the 45/70 and Marlin rifle combination - it works. That means I don't have a good reason to go out and buy another moose rifle.

  10. #10
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    45/70 guide gun factory 405 remington.

    cow moose

    50 yard shot

    dead on front chest... bullet rolled off sternum, and lodged behind front shoulder..( found when butchering) she went 20 yards and laid down.. i walked up to her and shot in head with .44

    she was hurt bad and not in any mood to argue any more.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    PA.
    Posts
    152

    Default More entries, more information.

    We have a few more informative entries so far... I will be looking for more ... the 45/70 class rifle is popular and should do well here.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    15

    Default

    I loaded up some 460gr flat point bullets from Cast Performance Bullet Co. 46gr IMR 3031. After shooting 12 rounds, I had a bruise on my shoulder. I remember the article from Guns & Ammo where they took a lever action 45/70 to Africa & took many of the Big African game. With the heavy flat point bullets, it out penetrated the 458 Win Mag.
    However, looking at my loading data for the 405gr JSP, my 458 Socom load is exactly the same max load. 48gr IMR 3031 with 405gr JSP in either rifle. This is from a rifle that fits on an AR15 frame & gives you 8 rounds semiauto from a standard clip. It also didn't leave a burise. The same powder loading should closely yield same velocity.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    PA.
    Posts
    152

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by brettcar View Post
    I loaded up some 460gr flat point bullets from Cast Performance Bullet Co. 46gr IMR 3031. After shooting 12 rounds, I had a bruise on my shoulder. I remember the article from Guns & Ammo where they took a lever action 45/70 to Africa & took many of the Big African game. With the heavy flat point bullets, it out penetrated the 458 Win Mag.
    However, looking at my loading data for the 405gr JSP, my 458 Socom load is exactly the same max load. 48gr IMR 3031 with 405gr JSP in either rifle. This is from a rifle that fits on an AR15 frame & gives you 8 rounds semiauto from a standard clip. It also didn't leave a burise. The same powder loading should closely yield same velocity.
    Remember, when they do stunt hunting with bows on Cape Buffalo, lever guns on elephants, and handguns on Rhino, they are HUNTING, not stopping. The Pro behind them is using one of the nitro calibers, the Lott or Win 458, or similar caliber/rifle! Bell used a 7mm and killed over a thousand elephants. I don't suggest you or I doing that though :-)
    Last edited by Proud American; 04-29-2009 at 21:47. Reason: add smiley face

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •