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Thread: Firearms trivia question Saturday April 25

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Firearms trivia question Saturday April 25

    I can't find the photo for the 250 year old shooter I was going to use today. So I had to settle for something slightly newer.


    In the attached photo, what type of rifles are these RCMP troopers carrying?

    And, in what caliber were they issued?




    xxx


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    Looks like the Winchester musket, I'm unsure of caliber though.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Can't see the breach but I'm thinking Winchester model 1895 but the lever looks like a Marlin. No clue on the round.
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  4. #4
    New member George's Avatar
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    Default issue Mountie guns

    Yessir!
    Those fellows likely are pre-RCMP. Should be North West Mounted Police. They are holding Winchester Model 1876 carbines in 45-75 cal.

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    George Got here first....LOL!

    1876 Winchester carbines nicknamed "musketoons'.....

    The 45-75 was the first "bottle neck'd" round as well for Winchester.

    .
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    Yessir!
    Those fellows likely are pre-RCMP. Should be North West Mounted Police. They are holding Winchester Model 1876 carbines in 45-75 cal.
    Right you are! They are North West Mounted Police and those rifles are Model 1876 Winchesters in 45-75 caliber.

    The Model 1876 Rifle was Winchester’s attempt to offer a large caliber repeating rifle specifically designed for big game hunting.

    In 1875, Winchester’s only products were the Model 1866 rifle and Model 1873 rifle, both only pistol power cartridges.

    A Winchester factory advertisement noted that "The constant calls from many sources, and particularly from the regions in which the grizzly bear and other large game are found, as well as the plains where absence of cover and shyness of game require the hunter to make his shots at long range made it desirable to build a still more powerful gun than the Model 1873."1

    Since 1866 Winchester had been working to make a high power, big bore repeating rifle.
    Since the Army Trap Door Springfield Model 1873 rifle in 45-70-405 government had become standard for the Army, Winchester engineers worked to find a way of using that cartridge in a repeating rifle. However, the toggle-link system, in use since the Volcanic and Henry rifles, could not handle the length of the .45-70-405 cartridge, without a long and massive receiver.

    So Winchester decided to make the cartridge a bottle-neck and slightly shorter than the 45-70 Govt. The resulting .45-75 W.C.F. held 75 grains of powder, used a 350 grain bullet and fed reliably through the 1876 action.


    Winchester felt they had a winner and the rifle entered the market in 1876. It had its premier at the Philadelphia Exposition (honoring the nation’s centennial), so the new Winchester became known as the Centennial Model.

    In its standard sporting rifle configuration, it was offered with a 28 inch round or octagon barrel (octagon barrels were optional but much more popular), straight stock, full-length magazine, and crescent buttplate. Carbines were offered with 22 inch round barrels and a full-length forearm. Muskets were offered with a 32 inch round barrels and also had full-length forearms. The sporting rifles outsold carbines and muskets by a wide margin.


    There are three major production variations of the Model 1876.

    First Models, up to serial numbers in the 5,000 range do not have dust covers. First Models are often called "Open Tops" although many early rifles were later fitted with dust covers at the Winchester factory.

    Second Model rifles are in the serial number range up to about 25,000. They have dust covers with the guide rail secured to the receiver by screws. The dust cover may be of either the "thumbprint" type or one with serrated edges.

    Third Models continue until the end of production and have a dust cover rail integral with the receiver.

    PLEASE NOTE THAT SOMETIMES OLD PARTS WERE USED ON NEW RIFLES SINCE WINCHESTER SEEMS TO HAVE NEVER THOWN ANYTHING AWAY.



    Winchester was disappointed with the sales of the Centennial model.
    The most famous group to use the big Centennial Model was Canada’s North West Mounted Police and they purchased over 1600 carbines.

    From 1878 until 1914, the Model 1876 Carbine was in use with the Mounties as well as the Alberta Provincial Police. It proved a reliable and popular arm with the Mounties. The other group known to use the Model 1876 in some numbers was the Hawaii Territorial Guard, which acquired muskets for use by the militia.


    The Model 1876 was mainly popular with people looking for a heavy hitter, to include Teddy Roosevelt, Johnny Ringo (Tombstone), Charlie Bowdre (Lincoln County War), Major Frank Wolcott (Johnson County War), John "Liver Eating" Johnston upon whom the movie character "Jerimiah Johnson" was based, and Granville Stuart (Montana rancher and vigilante).
    Teddy Roosevelt was photographed with one of his 1876 rifles.
    In the movie "Crossfire Trial," Tom Selleck uses a refinished and engraved Model 1876 Cenntenial carbine in caliber 45-60.



    The strength of the Model 1876 rifle and the .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge was tested by Winchester in the late 1870s. The factory conducted tests on the strength and reliability of the action to answer concerns by customers.

    In response to a letter sent to the company by Charles Hallock, Esquire, of Forest & Stream magazine, Oliver Winchester responded by telling about the tests the factory accomplished on the 1876 rifle. He indicated that engineers first started the tests by removing one of the toggle links and fired 20 rounds (this was with .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge with 350 grain bullet) with no effect. They restored the missing link then went through 6 more trials starting with a charge of 105 grains of black powder, behind a 700 grain bullet! The comment "worked well" is noted. They then increased the charge of powder to 165 grains behind 3 bullets (1,150 grains) and that "worked well." From there, they increased the powder charge to 203 grains and added more bullets until they reached 1,750 grains of lead (five 350 grain bullets). This also "worked well." Finally, they added one more bullet, bringing the total weight to 2,100 grains, and things began to happen. The comment was, "Breech pin slightly bent. Arm working stiff." The seventh and final test was again 203 grains of powder but this time six Martini bullets weighing 480 grains each (2,880 grains) were used. "The charge bent the breech pin, blew out the side plates, split the frame and otherwise disabled the arm," was the comment. Oliver Winchester noted that in this seventh trial, the shell had burst into fragments and the escape of gas at the breech did the damage.

    Winchester’s competitors for the Model 1876 included the Marlin Model 1881, the Colt Burgess rifle, the Colt Lightning rifle, and the large frame Whitney-Kennedy models.

    The Model 1876 Sporting rifles were also later offered in 45-60, 40-60 and an express model in 50-95. A real thumper that killed on one end and wounded on the other.
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