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Thread: New Russian River Carcass Disposal

  1. #1
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    Default New Russian River Carcass Disposal

    KK has an article on AOJ about the 2009 Russian River carcass disposal guidelines...

    http://alaskaoutdoorjournal.com/Depa.../news0421.html

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    Member Tomcat's Avatar
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    Post Just Moves the Bears into Camp

    Well, at least anglers still will be permitted to fillet their fish at the confluence. Sure hope more tables are added or there could be some seriously LONG lines down there this summer.

    Now that's a scary thought: lots of agitated fisherman standing around with knives in their hands and eager to do some cutting. I'd be less worried about the bears and more concerned about a knife fight breaking out along the river. In that case, might as well stay in Anchorage and hang out at Ship Creek.

    Anyway, glad to hear that the option of cleaning salmon along the river is still available. I think most folks will want to continue taking care of that matter streamside -- especially since fish processing in the campground is prohibited. Besides, everyone prefers a lighter load for the trek back up the trail.

    I certainly appreciate the challenges involved with developing a viable solution to minimize negative bear encounters along the Russian River, but this proposal seems somewhat flawed.

    I have serious concerns about people improperly disposing of carcasses in the day use areas and campground. Most likely, a few inconsiderate individuals will toss fish guts in the bushes rather than do the right thing. That type of behavior could easily move the bear problem from the river into the "people zone," and create a dangerous situation around camp.

    A final point worth noting is that these guidelines do not appear to be enforceable. Participation seems to be voluntary rather than mandatory, so getting cooperation and compliance from the masses may be difficult.

    As an example, I witnessed very few anglers adhering to the "stop, chop and throw" campaign over the past several years. Since the new initiative could be perceived as more stringent and inconvenient, there's potential for a strong resistance movement.

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    Default Just may cause bigger problems...

    While the efforts are appreciated... I don't think this will solve many bear / human conflicts at the Russian River...

    My observations are that when there are plenty of carcass's to eat the bears target whole salmon... What better source then fisherman... So, stringers left unattended (not attacked to a person) in my opinion are a far bigger problem and provoke more bears to be more agresive seeking a reward from fisherman that do not properly gaurd their fish....

    I understand there are no simple solutions in this mess.. Best case sinario is that fisherman wear backpacks and must retain their limit on person.

    Additionaly, ppl will still be gutting fish, so there wil be an natural attration to areas... Potentially this regulation could cause bigger problems. Persaonally it is easier for me to fillet a Red w/ out ever gutting it and dispose of the carcass, plus then you have much less weight to carry out.

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    Member John_Pennell's Avatar
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    Default Not a good solution

    I hope they don't take out the cleaning tables...

    I still say taking the carcasses out of the river won't remove the bears. They'll just try to get their fish from the fishermen.

    I understand the need for a fix, but I think this is the wrong one.

    "My rod and my reel, they comfort me."

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    Default

    Give me a break. When will they realize that there are just TOO MANY BEARS! Open it to hunting and get rid of the problem.

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    Default

    Don't agree with new rule. I can see it now with cleaning the fish at camp for dinner.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
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    Default Not a regulation

    If you read the news release carefully you will see that the agencies are asking for your assistance in reducing the buildup of carcasses in the clear waters of the Russian River. This is not a regulation, instead it is a message asking for cooperation in helping minimize the risk of a negative bear encounter.

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    New member AKDSLDOG's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishslayer View Post
    Give me a break. When will they realize that there are just TOO MANY BEARS! Open it to hunting and get rid of the problem.
    Or maybe just get rid of the fisherman! Stupid people caused the bear problems down there, not the bears.

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    Member TYNMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDSLDOG View Post
    Or maybe just get rid of the fisherman! Stupid people caused the bear problems down there, not the bears.

    There is not a bear management or bear populations problem, but a bear problem that is human induced.... The only reason those Russian R brown bears are there is the human produced (At least in early June to Mid August) carcass and poorly attended sockeye stringers.

    Not to mention there are really many regulatory agencies that all conflict on management... The West side is managed by US Fish & Wildlife Service for the Kenai Moose Refuge, the East and North side is psuedo (contracted out to a concesion) by the US Forest Service, division of ADFG sport fish which regulates sport fishing regulations, ADFG wildlife division, and finally ADFG division of comm fish that regulates the escapements (MSY) for the early and late run sockeye that dictate when the sancuary opens and liberalizes the sport fishery.

    All these agencies have their own interperpatation of how to fix the problems and yet they all don't seem to be working towards solutions that will minimize bear / human interactions.

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    "Or maybe just get rid of the fisherman! Stupid people caused the bear problems down there, not the bears. "

    Yeah, and there's no bear population problem in the Anchorage parks either...... I agree the problem is human induced and it can be easily fixed. Break the association of humans with free food, instead teach them that humans mean a boom that makes them dead.

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    New member AKDSLDOG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishslayer View Post

    instead teach them that humans mean a boom that makes them dead.
    LOL, I love the mentality of some people.

    No worries, looks like you got a new "bear cop" to keep Anchorage safe.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TYNMON View Post
    but a bear problem that is human induced....
    I should of reworded my post better, I couldn't agree more.

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    Default

    "LOL, I love the mentality of some people.

    No worries, looks like you got a new "bear cop" to keep Anchorage safe. "

    I only used Anchorage as an example of another area where Fish and Game won't admit there is a population problem. So if hunting does not teach bears to fear humans, why is it that one is twice as likely to be mauled in an area closed to hunting as in an area that is open to hunting?
    Anyway, hope the new guidelines help, but I doubt it.

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    Member cod's Avatar
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    Default opinions.....

    I would like to hear some opinions of other fisherman on the Kenai-Russion area.
    I say let the bears associate people with gunshots, not free food. They are pretty quick learners and will go elsewhere to eat if they find people unhospitable. Anchoragites should take head of exactly what the Kenai is like now. It didn't used to be this way. Let's rid ourselves of a few bears. Anyone on the Kenai will tell u there are plenty of bears that stay hidden. Those are good, smart bears.

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    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cod View Post
    I would like to hear some opinions of other fisherman on the Kenai-Russion area.
    I say let the bears associate people with gunshots, not free food. They are pretty quick learners and will go elsewhere to eat if they find people unhospitable. Anchoragites should take head of exactly what the Kenai is like now. It didn't used to be this way. Let's rid ourselves of a few bears. Anyone on the Kenai will tell u there are plenty of bears that stay hidden. Those are good, smart bears.
    I agree, hunted bears are weary (sp?) bears.
    Only a couple of years after they cancelled the spring bear hunt in Ontario, nuisance bear reports went up over 1000% in some areas!!!!
    Now there are bears running around all over the place. There have even been reports of bears on the outskirts of Toronto!!!!!!

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    Exclamation What ever happened

    to the fish grinder idea that was going around a while back? Didn't they even mount a few grinders on some of the fillet tables. Seems to me this is a perfect idea since it grinds the carcass down to small pieces which the rainbows and dollies will love even more.

  17. #17

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    Should just ban stringers, force fisherman to clean fish as they catch them, bag them and in the pack with it. Seems ridiculous to remove so much biomass from the river altogether. This isnt a good long term solution.

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    I envision a giant air cannon that you load the carcases into and fire them into the foothills a mile or so back. The permanently mounted cannon would drop them in a relatively small area congregating all the bears there. Then you could hunt over the bait pile. Gets the bears away from the fishing area, plus you get to thin the herd in a hurry.
    Problem Solved!!!!

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    Default LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    I envision a giant air cannon that you load the carcases into and fire them into the foothills a mile or so back. The permanently mounted cannon would drop them in a relatively small area congregating all the bears there. Then you could hunt over the bait pile. Gets the bears away from the fishing area, plus you get to thin the herd in a hurry.
    Problem Solved!!!!
    I like the way you think Drifter!
    "My rod and my reel, they comfort me."

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    Default worried about the safety of me and my family now

    I've been fishing at the Russian for about 10 years and each year, the bears came out more and more to the river... to the point last year that we would see at least one bear each day we were out. They would leave us alone though because their bellies were full from the salmon carcasses they would gather on the shores.

    So my concern is having a bunch of bears coming out of hibernation expecting to have their meal and nothing is there. Many of these bears were born there, and although I have nothing to back this up (as I'm not a bear expert), my guess is that these bears have never learned to catch live fish from the river. So I imagine these bears getting hungry and getting more aggressive to fill their empty bellies.

    Last year when I was fishing there were only a hand full of people on the river because there were only a few reds in the river. I was lucky to land 2 the whole day. I went to the cleaning table and the chain on the bucket most have made some clanking noise to alert a brown bear in the woods somebody has a fish, because right away he appeard right accross from me. He looked me down, and started to cross right at me. That was the first time that happened to me. We did some yelling and he did leave. But would he had left me if he were starving or REALLY hungry??

    So, I worry that these bears will only become more assertive and aggressive toward the fisherman down there after they can't find any fish on the shore! There is one known fact in nature... "path of least resistance". These bears will not simply leave to find food or work harder to catch live fish, when they can simply scare the hell or hurt a fisherman to get their fish. I have two reservations this season at the Russian and am considering cancelling.

    Wonder what fish and game has to say about this concern of hungry bears vs humans?

    I should say also that I don't support humans feeding bears. I would support closing the Russian all together than creat a situation where people are getting hurt.

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