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Thread: Medium bore stopper

  1. #1
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    Default Medium bore stopper

    Of the four, which would be the best "stopper" of a Grizzly or Brownie - .338-06, .338 Win Mag, .35 Whelen, or .350 Rem Mag? I have bigger stoppers but I'd rather not take them on my next Alaska trip. Any opinions/preferences?

    Rainydayhunter

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    If my choices were limited to those I would probably go with the 35 Whelen because I have a soft spot for 35s but the 338 might be a slightly better choice on ballistics. If I could throw one more in the mix it would be the 358 Norma Mag.

    BUT, if you told me that I was going to have to stop a charging brownie starting at 20 yds next trip I would pick my Guide Gun in 450 Marlin with heavy hardcast over my '98 358 Norma.
    Vance in AK.

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    I am happy with my 350 Remington Mag using 225 grain Kodiak Bonded bullets. At 2,800 fps (using RL-15) it is a hard hitter in a short action. But the magnum belt sometimes gets in the way. A hot loaded 35 Whelen might accomplish the same thing with more rounds in the magazine.

    I also miss my old 358 Norma Magnum. Although brass was a touch spendy. I was shooting 250 grain bullets at 2,900 fps with very small groups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    I also miss my old 358 Norma Magnum. Although brass was a touch spendy. I was shooting 250 grain bullets at 2,900 fps with very small groups.
    Form from .338 Win for ~40 cents per case (Rem or Win) vs $1+ per case for Norma stuff.

    2,900 fps + 250 gr sure sound like a HOT load to me. I consider 2,700-50 fps + 250 gr in a .338 about max.

  5. #5

    Default For a stopper

    I'd get a .375 either H&H or Ruger, 21" barrel, 300 grain load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainydayhunter View Post
    Of the four, which would be the best "stopper" of a Grizzly or Brownie - .338-06, .338 Win Mag, .35 Whelen, or .350 Rem Mag? I have bigger stoppers but I'd rather not take them on my next Alaska trip. Any opinions/preferences?

    Rainydayhunter
    I never shot a griz with any of the rounds listed but if I had to pick one I would go with the .338 and a quality 250-275 grain bullet.
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    I'd go with the 35 Whelen just because that is what I have. I shoot 250 gr. Kodiaks, and I've never had to take more than 1 shot. Of course, I haven't had to use it as a "stopper" yet, but I'm confident in it.
    The 338-06 is nearly identical to the 35 Whelen ballistically in real world conditions. I know that some will disagree based on load data, chronograph readings, etc, but under actual hunting conditions, the 2 are virtually indistinguishable.
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  8. #8

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    358Win - 225gr Partition or Seirra - 2509fps with sub moa accuracy







    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  9. #9

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    225gr Partition target:

    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

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    Default If I'm in doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    358Win - 225gr Partition or Seirra - 2509fps with sub moa accuracy







    I grab my 375 hh mod. 70. 270 grain Barns X now thats what I call a STOPPER
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    Default 358

    beartooth best rig money can buy! sure nice groups!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    beartooth best rig money can buy! sure nice groups!
    Yes, the groups are nice and it would get boring if I were to post all the groups that this rifle, scope and cartridge have shot under an inch since I started developing loads. I really can't wait to use my 358Win this coming hunting season. I have fallen in love with this rig, it is so much fun to shoot and handle and a sweet little/big thumper that you could shoot all day without recoil messing you up and a 225gr 35 cal bullet at 2500fps has through the years more than proved it's worth and value.

    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    I grab my 375 hh mod. 70. 270 grain Barns X now thats what I call a STOPPER
    There is no doubt about the 375 as a real for sure stopper.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  14. #14
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I'm partial to the ruger 350 rem mag all weather.

    That said, the 338 win mag is the only one on your list that has decent factory ammo readily available, and sometimes you have to use factory fodder.

    All of those rounds will be for all intents and purposes equal in terminal performance.

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    Default Whelen

    Of the choices listed I would and did go with a 35 Whelen. Keep in mind for a "stopper" more velocity may not be what you need. A Whelen with a 12" twist and a 310 grain Woodleigh at 2300fps or so would be just about right. Good luck.

    Josh

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    Default Factory ammo

    Not exactly on every shelf of every gun shop but easy enough to order online or just load your own if your into that. I think you could get to 2400+ fps with the 310g Woodleigh if you thought you needed to. Try these guys (sold at midway too). Ive never used em since I roll my own, but have heard good things from a couple freinds that tried em:


    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...555cd29fde1309

    Josh

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I think your 35 whelen balistics with a 310 gr bullet are, how shall we say optomistic. That's treadin on the 375 H&H magnum, in a much smaller case, and a smaller bore. I could see the 358 norma getting 2400fps w/ a 310 gr, but the whelen is at best 2200 fps with a 310 gr bullet.

    And since this list includes less common chamberings, the 358 norma should be mentioned, 280 gr swift a-frame @ 2500 fps would put it at the top of my list.

  18. #18
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    Default Ballistics

    Paul,

    I am not speaking from personal experience with the 310 grain Woodleigh. I am merely passing on what I consider to be reliable published data, I read it on the internet so its gotta be true right?
    I keep an eye on what is out there as far as load data ammo etc..but personally I only shoot 250's in my whelen. If I were to need something bigger than a 250g bullet I would most likely go to a .375 cal. But I would feel pretty good with some of the Double Tap 310g ammo or similar handloads as well. The orginal poster asked for opinions between a few specific calibers as a "stopper" so thats what I gave him. I agree with you on the Norma, thats a serious whuppin stick but it wasnt mentioned in the OP. Cheers.

    sources:

    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=174

    ".35 Whelen 310gr. Woodleigh Weldcore JSP 20rds.

    The true heavyweight! This loading brings your Whelen's stopping power up to the next level.
    Exterior Ballistics: 150yd. zero
    100yds - 1.4" high 2130fps / 3122ft/lbs
    150yds - zeroed 2050fps / 2884ft/lbs
    200yds - 3.4" low 1966fps / 2661ft/lbs
    250yds - 9.0" low 1887fps / 2452ft/lbs
    300yds - 17.2" low 1810fps / 2256ft/lbs
    Caliber : .35 Whelen
    Bullet : 310gr Woodleigh Weldcore JSP
    Ballistics : 2300fps - 3641 ft./lbs. - 24.0" bbl. Rem 700"


    ~and~

    http://35cal.com/loading.html#rel15

    "Subject: Re: 310gr Woodleigh SN load data request
    Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 19:58:09
    For the 35 Whelan.
    STD primer, Fed 210. Win WLR
    310gr Woodleigh SN
    55-58 grains H4350 for 2230 fps
    51 grains IMR4320 for 2220 fps
    57 grains Reloader 15 for 2435 fps
    You need a 12" twist to stabilise them in the Whelan, not sure about the Norma/"



    Josh

  19. #19
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I've loaded for the 35 whelen ackley, 350 rem mag and 350 rigby mag. I haven't tried the 310 woodleigh, but have loaded just about every 250 gr bullet on the market.

    Extrapolating I'd expect one to loose 300-400 fps when going from a 250 gr to 310 gr bullet, and closer to 400 fps. You can check just about any loading manual for a variety of cartridges and you'll find when bullet weight goes up 10%, velocity drops ~200 fps. So go up to 275 gr, drop 200 fps, go up again to 300 gr and drop another 200 fps.

    At best the 35 whelen will push 250's 2500 fps, maybe a tad more, and the whelen ackley will do 2600 fps, at 2700 fps the ackley will loosen primer pockets, been there done that. The gun wouldn't group when with lighter loads so was re-chambered to a 350 rigby and now safely drives 250's 2700 fps.

    That puts the 35 whelen at 2100-2200 fps with 310's, and the 35 whelen ackley at 2200-2300 fps.

    I have to assume that the "57 grains Reloader 15 for 2435 fps " is for a 250 gr bullet, as that jives with all the data I've seen for the whelen. I know folks that use 58 gr of RL 15 under 250 gr for 2500 fps from the 35 whelen. 57 gr RL 15 under the 310 woodleigh would have to run extremely high, dangerously high pressures in the whelen.

    It's interesting they test there load in a Remington 35 whelen, because as far as I know they were all produced with 1-16" barrels and wouldn't be expected to accurately shoot the 310 woodleigh.

    I contacted woodleigh about 10 years ago to see if my 1-14" whelen ackley would stabalize the 310 gr, they said they didn't know, 1-12" would be fine, 1-16" no go, 1-14" maybe. I never got around to trying them as I figured the 250 gr swift a-frame at higher velocity would be just as good, if not better.

  20. #20

    Default bear stopper

    Of the four listed I would venture to guess the 338 Win Mag with 270g A-frames would be the best bear stopper combo.

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