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Thread: opinions on motor size

  1. #1
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    Default opinions on motor size

    hey all I want to buy a osage 17ft canoe, and use it for hunting up smaller rivers and creeks, does anyone know what size engine would do the trick.

  2. #2
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default honda 2 hp

    that will run as quiet as a mouse, sip the gas, and push you as fast as you will feel comfortable, and last you for ever.
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Cruise and Carry

    Cruise and Carry is only 17 pounds or so if you can find one. Not many manufactures making 2-strokes after the 2006 EPA regulations came into affect.
    "Never again shall one generation of Veterans abandon another".
    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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    Default engine

    hey thanks for the quick replies, those engines you speak of , they give enough power to say push 2 hunters and a moose or a caribou or two? i was thinking more onlines of a 9 or something like that. then again i am really not an expert on these things, and taking everyones advice to heart here. i will not shoot down rivers like tannana or yukon but like hess creek and the smaller ones up north, if that info helps out on what my use will be. thanks again

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Changing the rules.

    OK, so what is the canoe rated for? If you have to portage you don't want to be carrying a huge motor around. I would think that a 5 h.p. would be able to carry the load your talking about.

    The Yukon and Tanana are faster running than most people think. It is probably better to have a little extra horse power and not have to use it, than need it and not have it.
    "Never again shall one generation of Veterans abandon another".
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    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 9.9 Hp

    I have 19ft Frighter with lift and use a Mercury 9.9 SS with a Rock hopper Guard
    Alaska

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    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default 17 ft Osage Missourian



    The Osagian website says that the motor hp limit for the 17ft, is a 5 hp.
    I use a 2 hp to travel up both the Swanson river and the Moose river with 2 people and gear for a week, of course I come down stream on the way out if I have moose, but the 2 hp pushes us up as fast as we want to go, but then again this is flat water,with less than a 3 mph current.
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

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    Default

    what you want is the biggest motor that will fit, you will not need all the power but it is great when you need it, what counts is the weight on the back end or side the OMC 9 or 15 2 cycle is about 75 lbs the only 9/15 with less weight is the old Force at about 59 LBS, so if it is on the side it has to be small on the back a different story the 17 or 19 footers will handle the 9/15 with a lift, with out a lift you will use a 5 or smaller, it is all in the weight where the motor is an where you are, what ever moter you get it has to have a slip cluch in the prop, no shear pin it allways breaks at the wrong time
    SID

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskacanoe View Post
    I use a 2 hp to travel up both the Swanson river and the Moose river with 2 people and gear for a week
    Max, I thought you couldn't use a motor on the Swanson. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

  10. #10
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default motor on the swanson

    yes you can use a motor on the Swanson. Here is the Kenai refuge rules on motor boats on certain rivers.

    (iv) Motors in excess of 10 horsepower are not authorized on the Moose, Swanson, Funny, Chickaloon (upstream of river mile 7.5), Killey, and Fox Rivers.
    The 10 hp limit is what you will be dealing with.
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  11. #11

    Default

    I have a 16.5' Osagian sq stern canoe. My canoe is rated for an 8 hp outboard motor and the canoe has a payload around half a ton. For many years I have used an 8hp Suk 2 stroke with a 6 gallon tank. the motor is a long shaft so I mounted a home made motor mount that raised the outboard out of the water just enough to keep it off the bottom. I have used this canoe in many lakes and a few creeks.

    Even with an 8hp outboard the canoe would not get on step. I would have a 200lbs person in the front and the canoe would not stay in trim. Both of us would be looking at the sky. Eventually I added a dolefin to the outboard and with it I can plane out and skoot right along. I timed myself on Lower Fire Lake to the island and back, only took me a couple of minutes. I forget the exact timing.

    I have used a couple of canoes with small outboards. All had the same problem, the stern would sink in the water and the front end would be in the air under throttle. IMHO a dolefin is a must. It will keep the canoe's nose down on the water.

    Now adays I use a trolling motor.

    I am curious to hear how well the 2hp outboard performed on your canoe AKcanoe. Where there trim problems and so on.

  12. #12
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default not on step

    I guess I am using the Motor a little slower than the guys that use them on open water to go from point A to point B.
    The Swanson is a very winding river, and very narrow in most places, so I am not going fast at all, The 2 hp pushes us up stream with no problem and My GPS says that I have had it @ 11.5 mph going up, as the fastest speed. I am sure that most of the time I am going only about 4 to 5 mph, but I am not at full power either. A river that is faster than say 5 or 6 mph would need a little bigger motor than my 2 hp to make really good time. If you are going in faster rivers, and going accross lakes etc. you better go with a bigger motor than the 2 hp. I have 5 hp Briggs and Stratton that I have yet to put on a canoe. I use it on my little 12 ft aluminum boat for the lakes, so I will have to put it on a canoe and see how it does.
    My friend has an old Scanoe that is really scratched up and is warped on the bottom, he uses a 7.5 hp 2 stroker and I think I can outrun him with my Fiberglass canoe and 2 hp 4 stroker. He just has so much friction and the bottom is oil canned so bad.. but for trolling and slow going, he does just fine.
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  13. #13
    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskacanoe View Post
    yes you can use a motor on the Swanson. Here is the Kenai refuge rules on motor boats on certain rivers.

    The 10 hp limit is what you will be dealing with.
    Max
    Thanks Max! A couple of years ago I asked one of the Fish & Wildlife (Fed) guys here in Anchorage and he told me no motors at all!

  14. #14
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
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    Default a little more research

    I contacted Osagian canoe in MO, and the sent me this on the Motor limits for the square stern models.

    16' SQUARE STERN
    Constructed from the 17' hull designs, we shorten the hull length to add the transom, permitting the use of a motor. Excellent choice for fishing or just having fun! Can be paddled normally or powered with (up to) a 5 hp. motor.
    17' CARGO
    The cargo has the stability of a Jon boat, with the maneuverability of a canoe. Great for fishing and camping on any waterway, the Cargo can be car-topped or carried on our single haul canoe trailer. Features a 44" beam, side sponsons, triple-keeled bottom and all-weld transom rated for up to 8 hp.


    The 17ft Cargo Missourian is a boat similar in size to the Coleman Scanoe. With that 44" beam, you can stand up in this baby and load it up. (I think this must be the boat you have Gremlin)
    I copied and pasted the website motor limits, but they had forgot to put the 17 footer as being able to handle the 8hp. they posted the 5 hp as the motor for that boat, but the 5 is for the 16 foot model.
    The 16 foot model is a very much smaller foot print than its bigger brother.
    thanks
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  15. #15
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    Thumbs up motor size on sq stern

    my rig ---19' Grumman(1978) with 15 hp Yamaha on J Klingle lift...Rockhopper and StingrayJr hydrofoil....
    I'm very happy with this outfit...able to travel at a peak of 16.5mph where appropriate and still go in places that a jon boat can't, even with a jet. My favorite river for hunting moose has an area I call "the maze" which has clusters of obstacles to keep out the competition...For the right places, this rig and those like are the only way to travel.
    Can't recommend highly enough the Rockhopper...it's indispensible. The only thing I am still trying to figuring out is a simple way to lock the lift to keep the hydrofoil from raising the motor up as the boat passes 10 - 11 mph. At speed in deep water I would prefer to have the motor all the way down and the hydrofoil lifting the the stern not just the motor.
    The 17' Osagian is quite capable of using a light 15horse....

  16. #16

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    Rockhopper????????


    I cannot find any info on this rockerhopper thingy.

  17. #17
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    Thumbs up re: Rockhopper

    I got mine directly from the maker in Minn. ...I believe his website is www.rockhopper.com...Cabela's stocks the Rockhopper for OMC type motors but not for my Yamaha, so I contacted the maker and for the list price he made one for me that perfectly fits my motor. It protects the lowerend and especially the prop from logs, rocks, etc. Excellant investment...No need for a stainless prop ...aluminum ones don't suffer abuse, although I still carry a spare...just in case....By the way, 2 stroke motors are about 20 lbs lighter than 4 strokes of the same power, i.e. better trim on the canoe...and my Yamaha runs on a gas/oil mix of 100 to 1, and is very quiet....

  18. #18
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    Default name of some rivers

    hi again was curious about some of the waterways everyone has traveled, anyone go up north? I am leaning towards and 8 hourse power 4 stroke, kind of fits my price range and if i have to make multiple trips to pack out animal or gear, well beats walking right?
    one plan i would like to venture is up inthe north slope taking it up the smaller waterways out past the 5 mile. I heard good things about the iversack has anyone been on it with there canoe? the jim rivers, and those rivers in area 24 to many to name.
    i do alot of planning here in iraq, looking at topo's just curious if any of them are fesiable and safe. any input would be greatly appreciated. thanks

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    Default Rock Hopper

    Cabelars did have what I think you are looking don't know if they still have them, they go on the bottom of the motor to help potect the gear box from the rocks when they jump up to kiss it, I do have a an extra one made out of stainless steel if any some would like to talk about it ,it bolts to the caveration plate, comes down the leading edge of the gear box PM me you you want a photo SID

  20. #20

    Default

    I have a dolefin on my outboard. It does not look like a rock hopper would work with the dolefin. I have never hit a rock with my outboard, I have hit some underwater weed beds though.

    Alaskacanoe, I do have the cargo version. Its a very stable canoe that two people can stand up and fish in. I have loaded this canoe up to the edges with two people, a full gas tank, outboard, and gear and gone up slow moving creeks without a hitch the entire trip. It also has a drain plug on the bottom of the canoe, which is nice at times. Eventhough its 16.5' long its light enough to where I can load the canoe in the bed of my truck by myself. I really like this canoe and I have put many many miles on it and caught plenty of fish from it.

    But with that said if I could do it all over again I would go with a 12 or 14' jon boat or maybe a small sea nymph on a trailer with an outboard. The reason being is that either one of those boats would be more stable than the Osage canoe. The only time I would see a canoe beneficial compared to the other boats I listed is if I was hauling the boat over land. I could easily haul my canoe over dry ground if need be, any other boat would be quite the task. The jon boat or sea nymph would excel in most other situations, imo.
    Last edited by Water_Gremlin; 10-28-2006 at 21:05.

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