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Thread: Alaska Natives only, for the Alaska Tier II

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    Default Alaska Natives only, for the Alaska Tier II

    Alaska Natives only, for the Alaska Tier II, Nelchina Caribou and Moose Hunt 2009.
    Under a new Subsistence Plan, Only the Ahtna Natives will kill the caribou and moose in Unit 13 this year. The Ahtna Natives will oversee the village hunts not the ADF&G.
    How is it fair or equal when Alaska Natives have 44 million acres for their own private hunting preserve? The 44 million acres is land that (I cannot set foot on without special permission).
    In 1971 (we the people) gave the Alaska Natives, The Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act; $962 million dollars and 44 million acres, which was a little more than 10 percent of our entire state. This Act was intended to make all Alaskans and the Alaskan Natives Equal in all ways, but are we?
    Ahtna chief executive Ken Johns said, people in the villages pay more for food, fuel and that electricity is more expensive, while city hunters are free to hunt wherever they want in the state, (you will not on our 44 million acres).
    Johns went on to say, some might think this hunt is unconstitutional and doesn't provide for everybody equally, Alaska Natives don't live in an equal society," Is Johns right about this? The Ahtna Incorporated alone has entitlement to 1,770,000 acres and owns 609,472 acres in fee simple title within the boundaries of the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park, (Their own private hunting preserve).As reported in the Wasting Post: Since fiscal 2000, Alaskan regional and tribal corporations have combined to receive more than $24 billion in prime federal contracts.
    Johns said, anyone who wants to become eligible for the new subsistence hunt is free to move to one of the villages.
    I have traditionally hunted and fed my family with Alaskan game for almost 40 years. How is this fair and equal? If the Alaska Native is such a great hunter, let them compete as an equal when hunting off his private hunting preserve.
    I hunt my game by fair chase, I do not cry for handouts or ask to have preference over another race, I consider hunting my right as well as a native does. What’s fair, No Subsistence Hunting, No Native Preference, A drawing for the different animals with no preference over another race with a wait of 4 years if you draw a permit, depending on animal?
    As defined in the ANCS ACT, "Native" was defined as a citizen of the United States with one-fourth degree or more Indian, Aleut or Eskimo ancestry, born on or before December 18, 1971, including Natives who had been adopted by one or more non-Native parents.
    Send comments to:

    Ahtna chief executive Ken Johns, wolfsong@alaska.com
    Kyle Hopkins, khopkins@and.comor call him at 257-4334

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    ~~LOL!!~~

    Man, private property is private property, no matter where you go, the color of your skin or what is "fair" or not..

    in 1971, the state gave BACK the property (which was In my opinion stolen, due it inequitys with race in the first pplace) to those who took the matter of rightfull ownership to court and won.
    Native alaskans could not legally own any ammount of land before 1924, (or vote, or were even consittered "equal" citzens) from the 1890s to the 1970's, non natives fished, mined and steaked private propertys that are still theirs and their decendants today. the original peoples of Alaska could NOT untill '24 and do you think that was "fair"?
    They proved in court that a vast amounts of holdings that the state and feds had in lands rightfully belonged to them, because when the land was being originally "claimed" they could not particpate, or have legal ownership of what was rightfully theirs.

    So get over it. **** few things are fair in life, and how all this has settled isnt as fair as the BS that brought it to what it is today.
    you cant change it, so why complain about what other do with their land?
    Its private property.

    Native owned corps are getting contracts like any other legit business, that is , after all, why they are incorperated, to do business.

    The "great hunters" are competing with other hunters, most natives alaskans DO NOT live on Ahtna, so why lump so many people in this tyraid?
    Did you know that the Indians are not in teepees or Eskimos in Igloos? This IS 2009.
    those 44 millon acers have been huntable with out "Permission" for 38 YEARS now, because they are Private property .

    Are the Great White hunters are running outta land?? Im so white it blinds folks...., and its never been any problem.


    The subsistance hunts I know of are open to ANY race, who resides in a village, and thats a special hunt only when the resources are scarce, which they are not.

    Move to a village today,as they wrote, you DONT HAVE to be a Native to hunt, and you might find out how important hunting is, and you might find out a whole lot more.

    Whats your take on Blacks owning land?

    Good Luck.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    What I find ironic is Ahtna has property from Denali park, to the northern Broad pass area. Less than 100 years ago there was no villages in this area, when the railroad started pushing thru, some natives from the Valdez creek mining area moved to Cantwell for jobs. Their was no 'village' to speak of. This area was historically used by Indians north. The Nenana river runs north from near Canwell area, I really don't think the Athnas or Copper river natives came 100-150+ miles cross country to hunt for winter foods. Thats a long stretch.

    It is known that the northern Indians came to this area and could 'raft' game taken to the Tanana, then farther. Kinda makes sense.

    I think someone dropped the ball in relating the Cantwell, Broad Pass etc areas to Athna.

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    Default disagree with strangers comments about contracts

    Stranger... I believe you are incorrect in your statement that native corporations are getting their contracts the same as any other legit business. The federal government (thanks to Uncle Ted and others) passed legislation that gave many of the native corporations the ability to get government contracts without competition. Essentially, because they are a minority and "disadvantaged" they were allowed to get the government contracts without bidding against other companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jws View Post
    Stranger... I believe you are incorrect in your statement that native corporations are getting their contracts the same as any other legit business. The federal government (thanks to Uncle Ted and others) passed legislation that gave many of the native corporations the ability to get government contracts without competition. Essentially, because they are a minority and "disadvantaged" they were allowed to get the government contracts without bidding against other companies.
    You are correct JWS, there is nothing fair about the publicly funded contracting system when dealing w/ "disadvantaged" businesses. I've been in Alaska since before the earthquake myself, don't consider myself racist whatsoever....however, the only racism I ever truly see is the various preferences given to AK natives due to their race and/or their skin color. Really tired of it in a country where the constitution does not allow us to discriminate based on race as well as many other human parameters. Don't get it....think it sucks!

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    I think it is easy for one to become upset when referencing Alaska Natives when they have no idea what they are talking about and are blowing smoke at everyone. There are things that certainly really irritate me, but I've learned speaking your mind about it seems to irritate those who think their opinion is very self richeous.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    The subsistance hunts I know of are open to ANY race, who resides in a village, and thats a special hunt only when the resources are scarce, which they are not.

    Move to a village today,as they wrote, you DONT HAVE to be a Native to hunt, and you might find out how important hunting is, and you might find out a whole lot more.
    Stranger ... this is not true here in SE AK. The Fed strictly enforces Fed law on seal / sea lion / sea otter hunts in this area. You must be local Native to even accompany on the hunt. They have busted non-native family (by marriage) members for just being in the boat on a hunt.

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    Default just being on the boat

    Muskeg, it is perfectly legal to just be on the boat in a marine mammal hunt. What you can NOT do however is help in ANY way shape or form, no glassing, no driving, no helping in ANY way, then you can be in the boat. Those are the laws, break em, and they deserve a ticket.

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    The Sea Mammle protection act is Federal.

    Properly awarding the lands stolen from tribes was a Federal deal....Hell, the Fed's took it in the First place.

    Settling tribes from their seasonal migrations was a federal deal...schools, allowing traders in , as well as missionarys.
    100 years ago there were FEW villages. Noorvik, whwere I am now, was established 1914. 100 years ago, people would have walked 100 miles in 3 or 4 days and 1/2 that with a dog sled....that was VERY common. trade fairs up this way has Siberian Yupiks, Chuk-chi, Point Hope, Barrow peope, Nortonsound people, heck, from Newbedford in big ships full of trade goods.

    The only 'people' I have ever experianced prejudice from has been Federal, in both employment, and in hunting.
    Federal "rules" about both, that are made by someone over the hill and far away, and I am of the opinion is NOT Native.

    Some things do irritate me as well.

    Ignorance, prejudice and stupidity go hand in hand and my opinion is mine as much as the "38 years late on the subject" instigator who I gave tiime to reply to.

    Great title;
    "Natives only teir II".....where did it say that in the artical? I only found "Johns said, anyone who wants to become eligible for the new subsistence hunt is free to move to one of the villages"

    Sounds like "Local hunters only teir II".

    Stay off the private property , if you dont have permission, like all the "Non OWNERS" and there shouldnt be a problem
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    why do i think this is yet another manning loggin name... oh yeah cause DUH!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by DNF View Post
    Alaska Natives only, for the Alaska Tier II, Nelchina Caribou and Moose Hunt 2009.
    Under a new Subsistence Plan, Only the Ahtna Natives will kill the caribou and moose in Unit 13 this year. The Ahtna Natives will oversee the village hunts not the ADF&G.
    How is it fair or equal when Alaska Natives have 44 million acres for their own private hunting preserve? The 44 million acres is land that (I cannot set foot on without special permission).
    In 1971 (we the people) gave the Alaska Natives, The Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act; $962 million dollars and 44 million acres, which was a little more than 10 percent of our entire state. This Act was intended to make all Alaskans and the Alaskan Natives Equal in all ways, but are we?
    Ahtna chief executive Ken Johns said, people in the villages pay more for food, fuel and that electricity is more expensive, while city hunters are free to hunt wherever they want in the state, (you will not on our 44 million acres).
    Johns went on to say, some might think this hunt is unconstitutional and doesn't provide for everybody equally, Alaska Natives don't live in an equal society," Is Johns right about this? The Ahtna Incorporated alone has entitlement to 1,770,000 acres and owns 609,472 acres in fee simple title within the boundaries of the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park, (Their own private hunting preserve).As reported in the Wasting Post: Since fiscal 2000, Alaskan regional and tribal corporations have combined to receive more than $24 billion in prime federal contracts.
    Johns said, anyone who wants to become eligible for the new subsistence hunt is free to move to one of the villages.
    I have traditionally hunted and fed my family with Alaskan game for almost 40 years. How is this fair and equal? If the Alaska Native is such a great hunter, let them compete as an equal when hunting off his private hunting preserve.
    I hunt my game by fair chase, I do not cry for handouts or ask to have preference over another race, I consider hunting my right as well as a native does. What’s fair, No Subsistence Hunting, No Native Preference, A drawing for the different animals with no preference over another race with a wait of 4 years if you draw a permit, depending on animal?
    As defined in the ANCS ACT, "Native" was defined as a citizen of the United States with one-fourth degree or more Indian, Aleut or Eskimo ancestry, born on or before December 18, 1971, including Natives who had been adopted by one or more non-Native parents.
    Send comments to:

    Ahtna chief executive Ken Johns, wolfsong@alaska.com
    Kyle Hopkins, khopkins@and.comor call him at 257-4334
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishermann222 View Post
    Muskeg, it is perfectly legal to just be on the boat in a marine mammal hunt.
    Well I guess the judge down here looked at it a little different ... he considered being IN the boat participating in the hunt ... the fella did time over it !!!

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    Default should have appealed

    Sounds like he got hosed, OR he was helping a bit when they saw him.

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    Default Private land

    I only have 3 acres but I don't let anyone hunt on it, If I had 44 million acres I still wouldn't let anyone hunt on it !!!!!!!!!!! Well I'd probably let my friends and family hunt with me... and sell a limited amount of access permits .

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    Well, I have nothing against natives but I agree with DNF. Locking up millions of acres along Alaskas few highways is bad enough, but to take federal subsistance and then tier II on top of it, I mean how many special privileges do you need? And its such a double standard cause they can hunt any general season and public lands on top of all the privileges. Its just really too many concessions to subsistence when they already have enormous easily accessed private hunting preserves. And they can shop at costco just like the rest of us so you gotta hand it to Ahtna cause they have really set themselves up nicely. Can you imagine how rich they will be when they sell parcells of that land?
    “I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. “ Fred Bear

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    This Mr. Manning guy and all his masquerade's is some funny stuff. He appears desperate.

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    Hunting on private property in the State of Alaska still falls under Alaska hunting laws.
    teir II is a state of Alaska deal and subsistance hunting is open to anyone in the state, on any open land, just eat the meat and your are a Subsistance hunter.

    It seems to me that you fellas think they gave this 44 millon acers to one guy.
    Its owned by thousands and thousands of Alaskans, and their rightful decendants, as private property. Alot of the land is managed in common for the people who have hereditary title to that land, and they manage it for profit, just like the state and Feds do with oil and mining leases. they own it, and som have chosen to keep it a huntable area insted of fence it off and sell it in parcels.
    These folks had a fresh start and looked at all the F*%# ups and most have done it right.

    Not much different than Homesteds and the vast ranches of the south.

    The problem I think is that YOU missed out , when Native Alaskans, Homesteders, Miners Citys and Borough's and the State/Fed settled "who owned what" in the 70's

    So DNF hunted tradionaly for 40 years and decides to pitch a ***** now.....38 years.......W T F?

    Get over it.

    Then go ask if you can hunt on private property, they might say yes.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Hunting on private property in the State of Alaska still falls under Alaska hunting laws.
    teir II is a state of Alaska deal and subsistance hunting is open to anyone in the state, on any open land, just eat the meat and your are a Subsistance hunter.

    It seems to me that you fellas think they gave this 44 millon acers to one guy.
    Its owned by thousands and thousands of Alaskan NATIVES and their rightful decendants, as private property. Alot of the land is managed in common for the people who have hereditary title to that land, and they manage it for profit, just like the state and Feds do with oil and mining leases. they own it, and som have chosen to keep it a huntable area insted of fence it off and sell it in parcels.
    These folks had a fresh start and looked at all the F*%# ups and most have done it right.

    Not much different than Homesteds and the vast ranches of the south.

    The problem I think is that YOU missed out , when Native Alaskans, Homesteders, Miners Citys and Borough's and the State/Fed settled "who owned what" in the 70's

    So DNF hunted tradionaly for 40 years and decides to pitch a ***** now.....38 years.......W T F?

    Get over it.

    Then go ask if you can hunt on private property, they might say yes.
    There, fixed it for you.

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    Strangerinastrangeland, I'm with you on 'private property'.

    I think it was the Russians that first traded and invaded their way into Alaska, not the Feds, from what I've read, the first two decades of russian contact with, especially costal natives, brought smallpox and other diaseases to the native people, killing approx 80% of the costals. Unfortunately rum and muskets were favorite trading materials, even after it was iieagel with rum.

    Not trying to hijack, just putting some credit to the Russians concerning Alaska history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Man, private property is private property, no matter where you go, the color of your skin or what is "fair" or not..
    Tier II includes (state) public land. That's what the controversy is about, not access on private lands.

    in 1971, the state gave BACK the property (which was In my opinion stolen, due it inequitys with race in the first pplace) to those who took the matter of rightfull ownership to court and won.
    ANCSA recognized fee simple ownership of areas which combined equal the size of the state of Missouri. At the time there were about 110,000 Alaska Natives in existence.

    And the rest, mostly called "public lands", is still available to Natives to enjoy along with everybody else. Equally.

    The United States paid nearly a billion dollars for fair access to the rest when a billion dollars still meant something.

    Native owned corps are getting contracts like any other legit business, that is , after all, why they are incorperated, to do business.
    I don't think so. They've had access to direct awards by federal agencies for years. I think that's closing down now.

    Are the Great White hunters are running outta land??
    Everybody on Earth is. They just don't make anymore of it.

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    "Tier II includes (state) public land. That's what the controversy is about, not access on private lands."

    Did you read the Title? "Alaska Natives only, for the Alaska Tier II"


    And this crap about "their own hunting preserve?"

    How is it fair or equal when Alaska Natives have 44 million acres for their own private hunting preserve? The 44 million acres is land that (I cannot set foot on without special permission).

    Kina makes you chuckle now, dont it? How many Missouri's can we fit in Alaska? man, this place is Big??...big enough not to cry over a Moose???.


    Ive hunted Teir II for muskox for years, got my share as well, I know how it works. Hunting Teir II also applys to private property, including lands held by Native corps. They must follow State of Alaska FnG laws. Private holders of lands do not get to make up their own FnG laws.I know this by having actually hunted alot of Privately owned lands.
    When the Ox numbers were low but harvestable, it was a resource for locals to utillize rather than some head mounting guided flyin/out and gone.
    Now that Ox numbers are up, its an open season for all Alaskans.

    If moose #'s were low, then maby the local residents should have first pick, especially if they are still having economic troubles. I can see that.gas here is still 7.85$ a gallon and a pepsi is 3.50$
    We choose to live here, and pay the price.

    This John fellas wants to keep the locals, natives, whites ,Blacks , purple people all fed and on a good economic standing, from what I see.
    I dont see a single thing to call "Native only" , if the hunt is open to anyone......and that if he's the head of the corp, I'd ask him for permission.

    Native corperation do not work on handouts.
    Tribes are administerd with Fed $$,and they are a local govornment, but Native Corp's. are not "Govornments" Th eIndian reorganization Act , called IRA's in the villages are totally seperate entitys than the corps.
    The corps manage lands and are there to make a profit, as corperations do. The local corp here, NANA, owns and operate Hotels (One going up in anch right now), Oil feild services, medical research, tourisim, Invest in telecommunications, run the Red dog lead and Zink Mine and many many other money making ventures that stand on thier own. They also are the major employers here, and employ local people (From our region, no matter your race) and pay for the schooling that it takes to get the job, if you need so.

    You bet the US gov paid good $$ to aquire the right to govorn Alaska, and you can bet this place has paid itself off many times over....How much did it cost to wage an 11 year Plains war on the Indians down south, to acheive the same????
    Look at Texas. Almost NO public lands at all. Itas all private and people there PAY to hunt.....it could be worse.

    My 4th grader laughed at this ladys writing style, and made me look at this thread with humor.

    This anonamus DNS lady with Her first post is pathetic.

    I bet She wrote this all up with the missconstrued accusations and quotes herself.

    ~~~LOL!!!~~~ 'The world is full of stupid people' my mom used to say, as well as telling me that 'You shouldnt argue with idiots, You'llll just end up being one too...~~LOL!!~~

    You almost got me, Mrs.DNS~~LOL!!~~

    38+years now....Get over it!
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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