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Thread: Newb question

  1. #1

    Question Newb question

    I'm just getting started in this whole reloading thing and have a few questions, but I'll only ask one for now...Is it a reasonable practice to use a different bullet to work up a load instead of the actual bullet you will use for the final product? For example, can I expect the performance from a Hornady 55 gr fmj BT wc and a Hornady 55 gr Vmax to be the same with identical case prep and powder loads, or will the BT profile be enough of a difference to have different results than the Vmax? I can get the fmj BT wc as a bulk bullet considerably cheaper than the Vmax and of course would like to experiment with the cheaper bullet before finalizing a load.

    Thanks for any help you can offer.

  2. #2
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    They will be different.

    For example, I worked up a load in .308Win with Barnes 168gr tipped TSX and tried that load with Barnes 165gr MRX. The bullets have a different bearing surface and ballistic coefficient.

    The MRX's were pretty good but fine tuning made them real good. The COL was .025 less and the load was .3gr more to achieve best results.

  3. #3

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    no
    the bullets you mention have vastly different ogives and will react differently in your gun
    each bullet stands alone
    OTOH there are "the load" for those bullets in the 223 in both gas guns and bolt guns that will put you in the ball park. Someone else has done all the work across a varity of powders,

    Start low with charges.

    see http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/m...incredload.pdf
    20 bullets of each can sort it out for you under this method

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default well since this is the NEWB thread..

    do you need the differnt book for each brand of bullet?

    Barnes, hornady, speer all have differnt loads and grains behind them... some really Differ with the same powder.. some by 2-4 grains per??????

    DOES the Bullet make THAT much difference?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  5. #5

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    Because chambers, barrels, brass, primers, conditions vary, pressures and accuracy varies.

    To be sure, start low, like the books say, and work your way up. Most books have a starting load. I would not use Speer data for Barnes bullets, for example. The Hogdon Powder web page lists many loads for Hogdon, IMR and WWW Poweder. Alliant web page has recommended loads.

    That's part of the fun of reloading! Customizing the load to your rifle...

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    The two bullets you mention will be much differet. IMO the greatest difference is because of quality control. The fmj will, IMO, be much less accurate than either the V-max or A-max.

    On the books, I would be skeptical of Barnes. I have never been able to match their vel. with safe pressures. The other books, IMO, are more conservative and I frequently use max loads.

    But that is just me. Follow instructions but starting at the starting load and move up is pressures are safe. A sticky bolt is a solid indicator that you are to hot. Good luck. J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    do you need the differnt book for each brand of bullet?

    Barnes, hornady, speer all have differnt loads and grains behind them... some really Differ with the same powder.. some by 2-4 grains per??????

    DOES the Bullet make THAT much difference?
    All the info in the books is tested safe in "their" test guns, but every gun is diferent. For this reason we always start at the low powder charge and work up without ever exceeding the high charge. So many things effect pressure and burn rate of a powder that it’s possible to have somewhat wide pressure results even in the same test gun from one day to the next just with the weather so all the books end up with different numbers, but in theory at least this is accounted for in the safety margin they use. I should also point out that going under the low powder charge can also give you high pressure (H110 and W296 are well known for this low charge high pressure property) so stay between the lines so to speak.

    So as long as you have a “published” load for your bullet, follow the start low, and work up rule you will be as safe as anyone with factory ammo. As you work your way up watch for pressure signs like flat or burnt through primers, hard extraction, etc as you look for the sweet spot for your gun. If I have more than one gun shooting this ammo (like .308) then I find the best compromise load following the same pattern and seeing what works best. Some people custom load for every gun but I don't see the point since I am not competition shooting.

    Yes, each type of bullet makes a huge difference to accuracy, but also to pressure. I’m sure you have a basic grasp of how shape affects/effects accuracy so I will just talk some on the pressure aspect. The two main ways bullets change pressure are weight and diameter, but things like hardness and tail shape also do to a lesser degree. More weight needs more force to move it and so creates more pressure before it even moves from the crimp and takes more time to exit the muzzle. The larger the diameter the more force need to push it down the pipe so this also changes pressure with the slightest change in diameter. Crimp is another big factor in the whole mess that people overlook.

    I hope I did not muddy the waters for you with my fast and over simplified answer, but enough good reloaders here that can fix you now that I messed ya up.
    Andy
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    Eggy,
    Sounds like you are loading for the .223? In addition to what others have said my experience is generally you can not get good accuracy with fmj bullets from any company.
    Also, reduced loads generally do not shoot as well as one's loaded close to max.
    Once you arrive at a accurate combination with a given rifle then you can sub and play around with components to find a lower pressure load that is easier on the barrel and pocket book
    Tennessee

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldRgr View Post
    On the books, I would be skeptical of Barnes. I have never been able to match their vel. with safe pressures. The other books, IMO, are more conservative and I frequently use max loads.
    I'll second that Barnes comment. My data has been 100-150fps slower than theirs in a few rifles tested even when carefully going over their max limit.

    Read the manuals carefully. They vary in barrel length and that will change published velocities a bit. Several manuals will have large differences in max loads with the same powders and bullet weight. The bullets are made of different material and have different bearing surface so internal ballistics and pressures are different.

    Just start low and work up checking for issues along the way. Don't be afraid of using up a few extra bullets when collecting your data, it's fun stuff anyway.

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