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Thread: 1 lb .22 "pak-rifle" NEED INPUT

  1. #1
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default 1 lb .22 "pak-rifle" NEED INPUT

    Hey Everyone,

    A friend is manufacturing a one pound "pak-rifle" in .22 caliber and just going through the motions of getting the fed paperwork approved in order to start marketing and selling it. He's put up a sneak-preview of it online:
    http://www.pakrifle.com/Pak-Rifle.html

    Costs are high to manufacture etc, and he is looking at around a $400 price tag. He designed this about a decade ago and has been carrying one with him on backpack trips to put meat in the pot and go lighter on food. And for that it is really the cat's meow.

    Anyway, was wondering if there is a market for this at that price, and thought I'd post it on the forum and get some opinions. Don't think there is anything this light and compact and durable out there, but not sure if all that many backpackers would spend this much on something like this. It's a fairly niche item I figure. Only 17" long when taken down, would fit in most any pack. And with peep sights it's very accurate.

    So there ya go, tossing this out there. Can't really answer any questions other than what you find on the site. Thanks for input,

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    been carrying one with him on backpack trips to put meat in the pot and go lighter on food.
    Sorry, Neat idea, I wish him luck, but even if it was $99.00 I don't think there would be many buyers. Most guy's are scared to got afield with a .41 Magnum, they want "MORE" Power.

    For me, that is what my S&W Model 17 (Rechambered to .22 Magnum) was hired to do, with its TT, TH and 8 3/8" Barrel.

  3. #3
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Default

    Pretty neat idea. Seems pretty high $ but I know how expensive one-off manufacturing can be.

    I'd likely be more interested in a long barreled pistol version FWIW...

  4. #4
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Cool little gun, and I see no reason it could not come in a 2lb 357 or something also! I think there is more than just the back packing market myself. What comes to my mind is every bush plain in the world needs one in the safety gear just like a fire extinguisher.

    From a business standpoint he needs to get a market feasibility study done by a third parity, there are businesses that do nothing but these studies. From there he would have a far greater handle on all the numbers as well as more evidence for securing investment and/or loans to move forward.
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  5. #5

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    It somewhat reminds me of the Zip-Guns we made in high school shop class back in the 50's.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Default

    I would worry about the open trigger but good safety would handle that.I would have no need but someone may like bush pilots etc.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Thanks

    Appreciate the input. Hadn't thought about bush planes carrying one as survival rifle, good thought.
    Best,

  8. #8
    Moderator kingfisherktn's Avatar
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    Mark:

    I'm assuming you're aware of the two survival rifles put out by Henry's and Marlin. They are a little more sophisticated, but also heavier.

    The Marlin Papoose is 3.5 lbs and the Henry's is 2.5 lbs.


    Among the purpose built .22 survival rifles, the Henry is unique. It is the U.S.A.F's quintessential survival rifle, weighing 2.5 pounds and measuring only 16.5" long when disassembled. This is the basic AR-7 design now manufactured by Henry. Its barrel, action, and two magazines store in its waterproof ABS plastic butt stock (there is no forend), and it floats. The steel barrel and action are Teflon coated for rust resistance. The look and feel of its bulbous butt stock has never appealed to me, but the rifle is actually pretty accurate. This autoloader comes with a 16" barrel and an 8 round detachable box magazine. The 2005 MSRP is $199.95 in black or silver; camo finish is an additional $50. A soft plastic carrying case is included.

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    For that price - why wouldn't someone buy a Savage/Stevens Favorite - weighs in at 3.5#, costs approx $150 used, and then take a wood rasp to the stock. Willing to bet you get another 1# off of it. Also - they make them in 22 WMR.

    If take-down capability is a major criteria - they made take downs, or take it to a smith and have him make a take-down out of it. Wiling to bet someone would still be WAY under the $400 range.

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    Default neat

    neat little gun maybe a bit high priced though. Springfield makes a good survival gun as well as marlin and henry. i bought the henry youth 22 this winter for a trapline gun, very light and incredibly accurate, single shot though. my wife wanted something that would take down so i found an older browning takedown for a good price, its probably the best backpack gun we have i like that it can be stored in the takedown mode loaded. hope he sells a bunch of them.

  11. #11

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    the Springfiled M6 copy has not been made for a while and seems to be going for about......$400!! which may be an indicator of the market for a specialty 22...

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    Member 6XLeech's Avatar
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    Default 16 oz rifle seems ideal for bush planes...

    Interesting rifle/thread. In Alaska, I thought private pilots were required to carry a firearm in planes - the survival gear maybe. Whether most do or not, I have no idea. Weight matters for bush pilots though; often choosing between cargo and fuel with each flight. I think Don Sheldon ditched the paint on his small Cessna because it gave him another 22 lbs or so for fuel, or cargo.

    I'm not sure about the specific weight savings for Sheldon, but as ADfields pointed out, where weight matters, if you're going to keep a survival rifle in the plane for obtaining meat for the pot (only)...then 16 oz seems more attractive than 3-4 pounds or more. There might be strong arguments for another rifle/caliber vs this rifle, but arguments for the .22LR as a utility round for obtaining food are strong. And .22LR cartridges won't add much either. If it came down to: "This rifle vs no rifle", the answer for bush pilots could be: no contest.

    16 oz rifle...amazing.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    In Alaska, I thought private pilots were required to carry a firearm in planes -
    That used to be the case, but they dropped the requirement about 10 years ago. That way convicted felons (politicians) could fly, and the anti gun folks could drive another nail into our coffins.

    Even if somebody is carrying a big magnum handgun for protection, there is nothing wrong with a super lightweight and ACCURATE 22 for critter getting...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Wow, saw this post originally but apparently didn't look at the site thoroughly or its been updated.

    Lights/lasers/scopes/fishing poles!! Definitely a sweet little package. It'd definitely be a funn unit to have.

    Likin' the anodized blue one!

  15. #15
    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Cool concept but could prove a tough sale when the market already has a few models to choose from. Less of a wash for a multi-million dollar company to scrap a production that didn't really soar.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  16. #16

    Default Triggerguard

    Not an Alaskan expert but with 30 years of lower forty gun ownership and hunting I would be reluctant to have any gun without a triggergard, I understand that would be for weight reduction, but the potential for a
    accident is too great for me personally.

    At four hundred dollars I would prefer a .22 revolver

    I got rid of a M48 22 mag Smith and Wesson during a financial crisis some years back it was the first new Handgun I ever owned. Paid $210
    out the door in 1979. A Model 28 Highway Patrolman was the same price.
    A Model 29 went for $280.

    Wish your friend the best of luck

  17. #17
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Got to try the pak-rifle this summer

    Have to say this rifle is really sweet. Re the trigger guard, it was a concern of mine too, but because you have to cock it before firing it ended up not being a real problem.

    You twist the barrel to the left to load a cartridge. Twist it back. You can carry it safely that way as long as you haven't cocked the firing pin mechanism back. Then when ready to fire, cock it, though there is slight clicking noise when cocking. It's very accurate if you are good with peep sights. Was taking squirrels at twenty yards no problem. Certainly a niche market. All of a couple seconds to take down and stows in pack very easily.

    The new fishing pole that stows within the grip and cylindrical stock is way cool too, but wasn't on the rifle I tried out. Neat to see someone inventing newer/lighter ways of traveling light in the backcountry. Would have loved to try the laser sight.

  18. #18
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    I carry a 22 caliber S&W Airlite revolver ($400) in my survival vest it is so light that you never notice it.
    HOWEVER,,, the 3 inch 22 is not accurate enough past 20 yards to be a reliable game getter. You need to be able to zap little ducks, seagulls, fish, squirrels and whatever else starts looking eatable once starvation sets in...

    So for my bus flying adventures I would be interested in a super light, compact and ACCURATE 22 rifle... I need to make head shots on small game at 50 yards.

    Your current rifle looks interesting, but it has a couple flaws that may kill marketing.
    1. No trigger guard: Not only is it a safety issue, it will also cause the wasting of ammunition while trying to steady your aim over a mossy knoll.
    It is also likely to cause the trigger to be damaged while pulling it in and out of storage.

    2. Sight radius: To make the rifle more appealing, it must offer an advantage other than weight. Super accuracy would be a good selling point. Mounting a peep type sight as far away from the front sight, ie the rear of the receiver, may increase the accuracy potential. (If the barrel always properly indexes.)

    3. Storage options: If the rifle came with or had an optional storage tube or some such thing, it would increase the marketability. As it is now, the trigger would be snapped off within the first week of shoving it into and out of my Cub's baggage area.
    If the pistol grip and trigger folded or unscrewed, along with the shoulder rest, then the entire thing would slide into a nice aluminum or plastic tube for storage.
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  19. #19
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
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    So $349.99, and he'll sell a million of them. He must have at least one (renamed) "tactical" accessory though...ie: it's not a "flashlight"...it's a "tactical illuminator". Maybe rename the Laser.

  20. #20
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Default Cute

    I'd have to vote for the Henry at 2.5lb, have shot one and its not a bad little pkg for half the price - this thing - well, it's def. different, but looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen!
    Ruger was the first to loose a multi-million dollar lawsuit I believe and it was the "buyers" fault - after that they beefed up everything!
    I am not sure another 1.5 lbs is worth $200 and a possible injury - sorry...

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