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Thread: Whats wrong with the 458 win mag.

  1. #1

    Default Whats wrong with the 458 win mag.

    Hi when I was a young boy I bought my first rifle and yes it was a 3006, and then I bought my first mag and yes it was a 7mm but there was a person in Osoyoos that was selling Brno 375 rifles so I went to take a look and these where Rifles not much for gloss but boy they had big game rifles spelled oll over them. So it took me about a year to buy one and when I shot it ..... Gone where the other rifles I found what I was looking for in life. Big bore that was it {mind you I do have a 257 wetherby made out of my 3006 action] back to the story, after many years my brno is shooting well but looking a mit pale so there was a old gun person selling his stock off so I went looking for a new 375 { 338 why when you have the best] Well he had one in a winchester 70 but he said he had a Rem but it was not a 375 but a 458 and he would give me a real ..... real good price on it because no one wants to buy it. This Gun is fantactic lite smooth accutate deadly out to 200 yards . It comes to every Elk hunt to White Swan I go to, what a gun and what a caliber to bad its basicly dead . This will be the last gun I will give up . Whats wrong with the 458?

  2. #2
    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Nothing, to my mind. There are a lot of people with "bigboreitis" who think the .458 is too weak. I bought a used one at a very good price, once again, because nobody wanted it. Bought a box of shells, fainted at the price, and started reloading for it. It's my most accurate rifle.

  3. #3
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Its a great round with not that much recoil for what it does.

  4. #4

    Default Well

    Here's my biggest peeve with the 458;
    http://www.midwayusa.com/BROWSE/Brow...ring=653***690***

    They also tend to weigh in excess of 9 1/2 lbs. and have 24" barrells. Not exactly a rifle designed to carry through the brush after large dangerous game.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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  5. #5
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Nothing, it's a fine round. It has been eclipsed by the 458 lott as the win mag doesn't have enough capacity for the monometal 500 gr bullets.

    Asside from that, loaded with a 350 gr bullet @ 2400 fps it is a very shootable round, and will handily take any NA game. It is easy to load for, you can load it down to 45 colt pistol levels or all the way up.

  6. #6
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    Default .458

    .458 is a super round , I've had a half dozen .458's in the last 40 years and they have all been tack drivers . The 500 grain Hornaday works great in the woods . Great round for bears close up .

  7. #7

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    If you agree that a 45-70 hot loaded can take any animal in North America then regardless of how "weak" the .458 is compared to the Lott it's still more than any 45-70. Which means it's more than enough for any animal you are going to run into.

    If we're talking Africa then the extra velocity and easier loading of long bullets in the Lott makes sense.

    The 350 grain Barnes TSX with somewhere around 70 grains of H4198 (around 2500 fps in my rifle) will give you a take anything load that is easy to shoot in a heavy .458 rifle.

  8. #8
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    Default 458 rifles...

    I have owned a .458 Win, a .460 Weatherby, and now I own a .458 Lott. The Lott is versatile and does shoot the .458 Win. if you want for recoil or availability purposes. If you shoot the 400 grain bullets in the 458 Win, it has plenty of velocity and power! I do not think that is it dead, just a little slower in sales. A lot of Pros in African has a .458 around, they have been there for a long time, and will be for a long time. The Mauser Action is proven over a long period. There are hundreds of charges recorded in Africa, versus a small amount of the same in Alaska. So they trust the claw extractor and control feed action much more than any lever gun, except Teddy Roosevelt a 100 years ago!
    Last edited by Proud American; 04-03-2009 at 15:21. Reason: add word

  9. #9
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    Default slow like a freight train

    Still have my dad's 458 and the load he used. Also have my own that I got 30 years ago. Still use dad's load. It clocks around 1850 fps and the cast bullet weights in at about 550 grs. The Lott and 460 may be faster but I doubt that they kill any deader or quicker. Not hard to shoot and accurate. Hornaday 500 soft points and solids work very well also at about the same speed.

  10. #10

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    What is wrong with the .458 Win Mag. Nothing, I have built a lot of them, back before anyone would make them in stainless steel. She's a mother'thumper. I used to have the floorplates engraved "Big Thunder".

    The only down side is if the clients rifle dies, and I would loan him the .458 I needed to be ready to catch the rifle. Mine generally had 19" barrel, one had a 16" barrel.

  11. #11
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Bought a box of shells, fainted at the price, and started reloading for it. It's my most accurate rifle.
    So I see factory ammo is more than 5 bucks a round, what are you loading yours for, price wise?

  12. #12
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    The 458 Win is a very good round, accurate and capable. It was for may years poorly loaded in factory form and caused a few difficulties, I think that's why we have the Lott, but with good loads is very good. I really like a bullet weight to get to about 2150 fps and the shorter barrels won't get the 500 grain up to that point, the 400 's and 450's will and the gun can be made in a 7 1/2# rifle of about 18" barrel and shoot the 450's to about 2150. That, given appropriate bullet design, will do all the 500 will at 1900 fps. RL-12 was my favorite powder a case full will push the 450 or 500 out well with no ball powder blues to worry about.

    It is probably at it's best as a stopping gun for large bears, the 500 grain not needed, and it is capable of reaching out a little but that would be it's weak point, trajectory. I rifle for up close may be called upon for an occasional long shot for the fleeing wounded beast. Here is where the extra velocity of the Lott or a good 416 will work better.

    I have an old 1964 vintage FN Mauser made Browning Safari in original configuration except for bedding. This gun is about 8 1/4 # with that light weight stock. All these Browning magnums had the same diameter barrel from 338 to 458, the 338 is heavy the 458 is the right size. It is light, well balanced and accurate. It's 24" barrel will get 2150 from the 500 grain bullet. It has shown it's stuff on the African continent several times and has a dozen buffalo and a few lion to it's credit. It belonged to two different African goers before I bought it but I loaded all ammo for it's many trips and with no complaints. It is a Mauser, it is CRF and it is a serious stopper.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I've been shooting the 458wm for many years; it has become my favorite hunting arm.


  14. #14

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    It is a great round in so many ways. One of my first big bores was a 458Win and it was accurate (very accurate), was fun to shoot, and was truly a big thumper, I prefer to call it a big hammer. Easy to load for with a great deal more versatility than a 45-70. I have owned both, the 458Win in a Mauser action and the 45-70 in a Marlin lever. I prefer the Mauser action over the lever.
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  15. #15
    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    So I see factory ammo is more than 5 bucks a round, what are you loading yours for, price wise?
    First off, just after I bought the rifle I found a deal on .458 bullets on Gunbroker. About $300 worth of bullets for $80. Still loading some of those. Great Northern was having a sale one summer on Hornady 500 grainers-old stock on their clearance table-$10 a box, so I'm good to go there. I really like the Barnes 300 & 350 bullets, but nobody in Anchorage stocks them-just the 450 & 500, which are too much for the .458 in my opinion. I've been shooting Speer 350s lately and they're not too bad, so to answer your question;
    $.62 for the bullet
    $.42 for the brass new. Yes, this is cheap. I found some Winchester brass at a Sportsman's in the Seattle area last fall. Look for .458 components if you travel!
    $.30 for the powder This will vary a lot depending on load. Figure about 70grains +/- each load
    $.03 for the primer, though I'm still loading some $.015 primers!

    Total round cost, $1.37, $28/20 thought there some costly bullets out there. Speer made some Tungsten core jobbies that ran $120/20, I got 12 of them in my Gunbroker haul.
    I also like the Hornandy 350 bullets. It's the bullets and the "Africa Mystique" that makes the factory rounds so pricey.

    Hope this answers your question. If you cast there are a lot of .458 moulds out there which makes it even cheaper

  16. #16
    Member Toklat3's Avatar
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    Smile 458 win mag

    I've got a pre-64 458 win mag supergrade that had the bbl
    shot out and then rebarreld and chambered for 350 gr rn bullets. 500 gr will not chamber!! The 350's will shoot consistantly 1.25 @ 100 yds off the bench. It kills on both end's but in the field will make you feel very confident!! This gun came from the custom shop and has very handsome stock. I've been tempted to restock with Mcmillan or comparable but can't bring myself to do away with the beautiful wood thats on this gun. 458 win mag is a very impressive round for Ak Bear if you can stand to practice at the bench or field. My 2cts

  17. #17
    Member Toklat3's Avatar
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    The 350 gr rn hornadays are the ticket in my rifle. As I said earlier 500 gr won't chamber but don't think you need'em up here. 350 gr should kill anything in Alaska if placed right?

  18. #18
    Member BrettAKSCI's Avatar
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    As stated absolutely nothing. It got a bad rap when it first came out. They had some issues with its performance or lack of performance on African dangerous game. Something about bullets bouncing off elephants or visibly bouncing along the ground after leaving the barrel. The issue wasn't the gun, but faulty ammo. The other issue was that the manufacturers lied about performance. The cartridge was supposed to match the established dangerous game bench mark of a 480-500 grain .458 bullet at 2150fps. It failed by about 200fps. That's when the .458 Lott, 450 Rigby, 460 Weatherby, ect came along. It's more than adequate for North America or even Africa at its 1950-2000fps. I think as stated there's some bigboreitis going around.

    Brett

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